Does a true polymorphed familiar retain the mechanical benefits of a familiar?
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If I use find familiar as an Arcane Trickster Rogue, then have a high level wizard cast (concentration) true polymorph on said familiar to turn them into a homunculus, would the familiar still retain the mechanical benefits granted by the spell?
Specifically,
- Would the Homunculus be telepathically linked to my Rogue? (anywhere on the same plane of existence)?
- Would the familiar still "deliver a spell with a range of touch" (eg use mage hand to pick pockets in a different city)?
dnd-5e familiars polymorph
edited Nov 24 '18 at 23:30
Rubiksmoose
56.2k9273422
asked Nov 24 '18 at 23:16
CaffeineAddictionCaffeineAddiction
444314
$endgroup$
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
If I use find familiar as an Arcane Trickster Rogue, then have a high level wizard cast (concentration) true polymorph on said familiar to turn them into a homunculus, would the familiar still retain the mechanical benefits granted by the spell?
Specifically,
- Would the Homunculus be telepathically linked to my Rogue? (anywhere on the same plane of existence)?
- Would the familiar still "deliver a spell with a range of touch" (eg use mage hand to pick pockets in a different city)?
dnd-5e familiars polymorph
edited Nov 24 '18 at 23:30
Rubiksmoose
56.2k9273422
asked Nov 24 '18 at 23:16
CaffeineAddictionCaffeineAddiction
444314
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
I made some edits to your question. Do they still represent what you are trying to ask?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Nov 24 '18 at 23:23
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose looks good
$endgroup$
– CaffeineAddiction
Nov 24 '18 at 23:26
$begingroup$
Also what do you mean by "eg use mage hand to pick pockets in a different city"? Do you mean that the humunculus-familiar attempts to pick pockets with mage hand while being in a different city from the rogue?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Nov 24 '18 at 23:26
$begingroup$
From my understanding, the familiar is just a conduit of the spell ... not the caster itself. Could I use this effect to cast mage hand while outside of the normal range presented by the familiar.
$endgroup$
– CaffeineAddiction
Nov 24 '18 at 23:28
$begingroup$
@CaffeineAddiction: Reread the last paragraph of the find familiar spell description: "Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll."
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
Nov 24 '18 at 23:30
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
If I use find familiar as an Arcane Trickster Rogue, then have a high level wizard cast (concentration) true polymorph on said familiar to turn them into a homunculus, would the familiar still retain the mechanical benefits granted by the spell?
Specifically,
- Would the Homunculus be telepathically linked to my Rogue? (anywhere on the same plane of existence)?
- Would the familiar still "deliver a spell with a range of touch" (eg use mage hand to pick pockets in a different city)?
dnd-5e familiars polymorph
edited Nov 24 '18 at 23:30
Rubiksmoose
56.2k9273422
asked Nov 24 '18 at 23:16
CaffeineAddictionCaffeineAddiction
444314
$endgroup$
If I use find familiar as an Arcane Trickster Rogue, then have a high level wizard cast (concentration) true polymorph on said familiar to turn them into a homunculus, would the familiar still retain the mechanical benefits granted by the spell?
Specifically,
- Would the Homunculus be telepathically linked to my Rogue? (anywhere on the same plane of existence)?
- Would the familiar still "deliver a spell with a range of touch" (eg use mage hand to pick pockets in a different city)?
dnd-5e familiars polymorph
dnd-5e familiars polymorph
edited Nov 24 '18 at 23:30
Rubiksmoose
56.2k9273422
asked Nov 24 '18 at 23:16
CaffeineAddictionCaffeineAddiction
444314
edited Nov 24 '18 at 23:30
Rubiksmoose
56.2k9273422
asked Nov 24 '18 at 23:16
CaffeineAddictionCaffeineAddiction
444314
edited Nov 24 '18 at 23:30
Rubiksmoose
56.2k9273422
edited Nov 24 '18 at 23:30
Rubiksmoose
56.2k9273422
edited Nov 24 '18 at 23:30
Rubiksmoose
56.2k9273422
56.2k9273422
asked Nov 24 '18 at 23:16
CaffeineAddictionCaffeineAddiction
444314
asked Nov 24 '18 at 23:16
CaffeineAddictionCaffeineAddiction
444314
asked Nov 24 '18 at 23:16
CaffeineAddictionCaffeineAddiction
444314
444314
2
$begingroup$
I made some edits to your question. Do they still represent what you are trying to ask?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Nov 24 '18 at 23:23
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose looks good
$endgroup$
– CaffeineAddiction
Nov 24 '18 at 23:26
$begingroup$
Also what do you mean by "eg use mage hand to pick pockets in a different city"? Do you mean that the humunculus-familiar attempts to pick pockets with mage hand while being in a different city from the rogue?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Nov 24 '18 at 23:26
$begingroup$
From my understanding, the familiar is just a conduit of the spell ... not the caster itself. Could I use this effect to cast mage hand while outside of the normal range presented by the familiar.
$endgroup$
– CaffeineAddiction
Nov 24 '18 at 23:28
$begingroup$
@CaffeineAddiction: Reread the last paragraph of the find familiar spell description: "Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll."
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
Nov 24 '18 at 23:30
|
show 2 more comments
2
$begingroup$
I made some edits to your question. Do they still represent what you are trying to ask?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Nov 24 '18 at 23:23
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose looks good
$endgroup$
– CaffeineAddiction
Nov 24 '18 at 23:26
$begingroup$
Also what do you mean by "eg use mage hand to pick pockets in a different city"? Do you mean that the humunculus-familiar attempts to pick pockets with mage hand while being in a different city from the rogue?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Nov 24 '18 at 23:26
$begingroup$
From my understanding, the familiar is just a conduit of the spell ... not the caster itself. Could I use this effect to cast mage hand while outside of the normal range presented by the familiar.
$endgroup$
– CaffeineAddiction
Nov 24 '18 at 23:28
$begingroup$
@CaffeineAddiction: Reread the last paragraph of the find familiar spell description: "Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll."
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
Nov 24 '18 at 23:30
2
2
$begingroup$
I made some edits to your question. Do they still represent what you are trying to ask?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Nov 24 '18 at 23:23
$begingroup$
I made some edits to your question. Do they still represent what you are trying to ask?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Nov 24 '18 at 23:23
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose looks good
$endgroup$
– CaffeineAddiction
Nov 24 '18 at 23:26
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose looks good
$endgroup$
– CaffeineAddiction
Nov 24 '18 at 23:26
$begingroup$
Also what do you mean by "eg use mage hand to pick pockets in a different city"? Do you mean that the humunculus-familiar attempts to pick pockets with mage hand while being in a different city from the rogue?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Nov 24 '18 at 23:26
$begingroup$
Also what do you mean by "eg use mage hand to pick pockets in a different city"? Do you mean that the humunculus-familiar attempts to pick pockets with mage hand while being in a different city from the rogue?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Nov 24 '18 at 23:26
$begingroup$
From my understanding, the familiar is just a conduit of the spell ... not the caster itself. Could I use this effect to cast mage hand while outside of the normal range presented by the familiar.
$endgroup$
– CaffeineAddiction
Nov 24 '18 at 23:28
$begingroup$
From my understanding, the familiar is just a conduit of the spell ... not the caster itself. Could I use this effect to cast mage hand while outside of the normal range presented by the familiar.
$endgroup$
– CaffeineAddiction
Nov 24 '18 at 23:28
$begingroup$
@CaffeineAddiction: Reread the last paragraph of the find familiar spell description: "Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll."
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
Nov 24 '18 at 23:30
$begingroup$
@CaffeineAddiction: Reread the last paragraph of the find familiar spell description: "Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll."
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
Nov 24 '18 at 23:30
|
show 2 more comments
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Familiars retain the benefits of being a familiar even when true polymorphed
Nothing about true polymorph cancels the effects of the find familiar spell. The benefits of find familiar such as telepathy and the ability to deliver touch spells are not statistics of the familiar (they aren't listed in their statblock) and thus aren't replaced by true polymorph.
Remember the general policy for two spells interacting as stated by Jeremy Crawford:
Spell A doesn't cancel spell B unless the text of spell A says it does.
Transforming into a homunculus will give you telepathy while on the same plane
The statblock for the homunculus says:
Telepathic Bond. While the homunculus is on the same plane of existence as its master, it can magically convey what it senses to its master, and the two can communicate telepathically.
While not canceling the effects of find familiar, in this case true polymorph would add to the familiar's abilities because it is changing the underlying creature's natural abilities. This is not changing anything about the find familiar spell's effects though only adding an ability to the familiar itself.
You cannot gain infinite range for casting spells through your familiar
As stated in the first section, nothing about true polymorph cancels the effects of the find familiar spell. Thus, you can still cast spells through your homunculus familiar because find familiar says:
Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it.
Note that the range, 100 feet, has nothing to do with telepathy. It is a separate range listed in a separate part of the spell description. Thus, increasing the range at which you can communicate with the familiar telepathically will do nothing to increase the range at which they can deliver spells. Nothing about true polymorph or the statblock for a humunculus specifically states that they increase the range for familiars to deliver touch spells, so they do not.
Also, note that mage hand is not a touch spell so it cannot be delivered through a familiar regardless. (thanks @v2blast)
answered Nov 24 '18 at 23:42
RubiksmooseRubiksmoose
56.2k9273422
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Ok so casting spells through the it would still work ... I would just have to be in the 100 feet range. So still a good pick pocket minion, just not w/ inf range.
$endgroup$
– CaffeineAddiction
Nov 24 '18 at 23:49
$begingroup$
@CaffeineAddiction correct!
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Nov 24 '18 at 23:51
3
$begingroup$
@CaffeineAddiction: Note that mage hand isn't a touch range spell, though, and can't be delivered through your familiar.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
Nov 24 '18 at 23:53
$begingroup$
@V2Blast good point
$endgroup$
– CaffeineAddiction
Nov 24 '18 at 23:55
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
Familiars retain the benefits of being a familiar even when true polymorphed
Nothing about true polymorph cancels the effects of the find familiar spell. The benefits of find familiar such as telepathy and the ability to deliver touch spells are not statistics of the familiar (they aren't listed in their statblock) and thus aren't replaced by true polymorph.
Remember the general policy for two spells interacting as stated by Jeremy Crawford:
Spell A doesn't cancel spell B unless the text of spell A says it does.
Transforming into a homunculus will give you telepathy while on the same plane
The statblock for the homunculus says:
Telepathic Bond. While the homunculus is on the same plane of existence as its master, it can magically convey what it senses to its master, and the two can communicate telepathically.
While not canceling the effects of find familiar, in this case true polymorph would add to the familiar's abilities because it is changing the underlying creature's natural abilities. This is not changing anything about the find familiar spell's effects though only adding an ability to the familiar itself.
You cannot gain infinite range for casting spells through your familiar
As stated in the first section, nothing about true polymorph cancels the effects of the find familiar spell. Thus, you can still cast spells through your homunculus familiar because find familiar says:
Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it.
Note that the range, 100 feet, has nothing to do with telepathy. It is a separate range listed in a separate part of the spell description. Thus, increasing the range at which you can communicate with the familiar telepathically will do nothing to increase the range at which they can deliver spells. Nothing about true polymorph or the statblock for a humunculus specifically states that they increase the range for familiars to deliver touch spells, so they do not.
Also, note that mage hand is not a touch spell so it cannot be delivered through a familiar regardless. (thanks @v2blast)
answered Nov 24 '18 at 23:42
RubiksmooseRubiksmoose
56.2k9273422
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Ok so casting spells through the it would still work ... I would just have to be in the 100 feet range. So still a good pick pocket minion, just not w/ inf range.
$endgroup$
– CaffeineAddiction
Nov 24 '18 at 23:49
$begingroup$
@CaffeineAddiction correct!
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Nov 24 '18 at 23:51
3
$begingroup$
@CaffeineAddiction: Note that mage hand isn't a touch range spell, though, and can't be delivered through your familiar.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
Nov 24 '18 at 23:53
$begingroup$
@V2Blast good point
$endgroup$
– CaffeineAddiction
Nov 24 '18 at 23:55
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Familiars retain the benefits of being a familiar even when true polymorphed
Nothing about true polymorph cancels the effects of the find familiar spell. The benefits of find familiar such as telepathy and the ability to deliver touch spells are not statistics of the familiar (they aren't listed in their statblock) and thus aren't replaced by true polymorph.
Remember the general policy for two spells interacting as stated by Jeremy Crawford:
Spell A doesn't cancel spell B unless the text of spell A says it does.
Transforming into a homunculus will give you telepathy while on the same plane
The statblock for the homunculus says:
Telepathic Bond. While the homunculus is on the same plane of existence as its master, it can magically convey what it senses to its master, and the two can communicate telepathically.
While not canceling the effects of find familiar, in this case true polymorph would add to the familiar's abilities because it is changing the underlying creature's natural abilities. This is not changing anything about the find familiar spell's effects though only adding an ability to the familiar itself.
You cannot gain infinite range for casting spells through your familiar
As stated in the first section, nothing about true polymorph cancels the effects of the find familiar spell. Thus, you can still cast spells through your homunculus familiar because find familiar says:
Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it.
Note that the range, 100 feet, has nothing to do with telepathy. It is a separate range listed in a separate part of the spell description. Thus, increasing the range at which you can communicate with the familiar telepathically will do nothing to increase the range at which they can deliver spells. Nothing about true polymorph or the statblock for a humunculus specifically states that they increase the range for familiars to deliver touch spells, so they do not.
Also, note that mage hand is not a touch spell so it cannot be delivered through a familiar regardless. (thanks @v2blast)
answered Nov 24 '18 at 23:42
RubiksmooseRubiksmoose
56.2k9273422
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Ok so casting spells through the it would still work ... I would just have to be in the 100 feet range. So still a good pick pocket minion, just not w/ inf range.
$endgroup$
– CaffeineAddiction
Nov 24 '18 at 23:49
$begingroup$
@CaffeineAddiction correct!
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Nov 24 '18 at 23:51
3
$begingroup$
@CaffeineAddiction: Note that mage hand isn't a touch range spell, though, and can't be delivered through your familiar.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
Nov 24 '18 at 23:53
$begingroup$
@V2Blast good point
$endgroup$
– CaffeineAddiction
Nov 24 '18 at 23:55
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Familiars retain the benefits of being a familiar even when true polymorphed
Nothing about true polymorph cancels the effects of the find familiar spell. The benefits of find familiar such as telepathy and the ability to deliver touch spells are not statistics of the familiar (they aren't listed in their statblock) and thus aren't replaced by true polymorph.
Remember the general policy for two spells interacting as stated by Jeremy Crawford:
Spell A doesn't cancel spell B unless the text of spell A says it does.
Transforming into a homunculus will give you telepathy while on the same plane
The statblock for the homunculus says:
Telepathic Bond. While the homunculus is on the same plane of existence as its master, it can magically convey what it senses to its master, and the two can communicate telepathically.
While not canceling the effects of find familiar, in this case true polymorph would add to the familiar's abilities because it is changing the underlying creature's natural abilities. This is not changing anything about the find familiar spell's effects though only adding an ability to the familiar itself.
You cannot gain infinite range for casting spells through your familiar
As stated in the first section, nothing about true polymorph cancels the effects of the find familiar spell. Thus, you can still cast spells through your homunculus familiar because find familiar says:
Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it.
Note that the range, 100 feet, has nothing to do with telepathy. It is a separate range listed in a separate part of the spell description. Thus, increasing the range at which you can communicate with the familiar telepathically will do nothing to increase the range at which they can deliver spells. Nothing about true polymorph or the statblock for a humunculus specifically states that they increase the range for familiars to deliver touch spells, so they do not.
Also, note that mage hand is not a touch spell so it cannot be delivered through a familiar regardless. (thanks @v2blast)
answered Nov 24 '18 at 23:42
RubiksmooseRubiksmoose
56.2k9273422
$endgroup$
Familiars retain the benefits of being a familiar even when true polymorphed
Nothing about true polymorph cancels the effects of the find familiar spell. The benefits of find familiar such as telepathy and the ability to deliver touch spells are not statistics of the familiar (they aren't listed in their statblock) and thus aren't replaced by true polymorph.
Remember the general policy for two spells interacting as stated by Jeremy Crawford:
Spell A doesn't cancel spell B unless the text of spell A says it does.
Transforming into a homunculus will give you telepathy while on the same plane
The statblock for the homunculus says:
Telepathic Bond. While the homunculus is on the same plane of existence as its master, it can magically convey what it senses to its master, and the two can communicate telepathically.
While not canceling the effects of find familiar, in this case true polymorph would add to the familiar's abilities because it is changing the underlying creature's natural abilities. This is not changing anything about the find familiar spell's effects though only adding an ability to the familiar itself.
You cannot gain infinite range for casting spells through your familiar
As stated in the first section, nothing about true polymorph cancels the effects of the find familiar spell. Thus, you can still cast spells through your homunculus familiar because find familiar says:
Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it.
Note that the range, 100 feet, has nothing to do with telepathy. It is a separate range listed in a separate part of the spell description. Thus, increasing the range at which you can communicate with the familiar telepathically will do nothing to increase the range at which they can deliver spells. Nothing about true polymorph or the statblock for a humunculus specifically states that they increase the range for familiars to deliver touch spells, so they do not.
Also, note that mage hand is not a touch spell so it cannot be delivered through a familiar regardless. (thanks @v2blast)
answered Nov 24 '18 at 23:42
RubiksmooseRubiksmoose
56.2k9273422
edited Nov 25 '18 at 0:14
answered Nov 24 '18 at 23:42
RubiksmooseRubiksmoose
56.2k9273422
answered Nov 24 '18 at 23:42
RubiksmooseRubiksmoose
56.2k9273422
answered Nov 24 '18 at 23:42
RubiksmooseRubiksmoose
56.2k9273422
56.2k9273422
$begingroup$
Ok so casting spells through the it would still work ... I would just have to be in the 100 feet range. So still a good pick pocket minion, just not w/ inf range.
$endgroup$
– CaffeineAddiction
Nov 24 '18 at 23:49
$begingroup$
@CaffeineAddiction correct!
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Nov 24 '18 at 23:51
3
$begingroup$
@CaffeineAddiction: Note that mage hand isn't a touch range spell, though, and can't be delivered through your familiar.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
Nov 24 '18 at 23:53
$begingroup$
@V2Blast good point
$endgroup$
– CaffeineAddiction
Nov 24 '18 at 23:55
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Ok so casting spells through the it would still work ... I would just have to be in the 100 feet range. So still a good pick pocket minion, just not w/ inf range.
$endgroup$
– CaffeineAddiction
Nov 24 '18 at 23:49
$begingroup$
@CaffeineAddiction correct!
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Nov 24 '18 at 23:51
3
$begingroup$
@CaffeineAddiction: Note that mage hand isn't a touch range spell, though, and can't be delivered through your familiar.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
Nov 24 '18 at 23:53
$begingroup$
@V2Blast good point
$endgroup$
– CaffeineAddiction
Nov 24 '18 at 23:55
$begingroup$
Ok so casting spells through the it would still work ... I would just have to be in the 100 feet range. So still a good pick pocket minion, just not w/ inf range.
$endgroup$
– CaffeineAddiction
Nov 24 '18 at 23:49
$begingroup$
Ok so casting spells through the it would still work ... I would just have to be in the 100 feet range. So still a good pick pocket minion, just not w/ inf range.
$endgroup$
– CaffeineAddiction
Nov 24 '18 at 23:49
$begingroup$
@CaffeineAddiction correct!
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Nov 24 '18 at 23:51
$begingroup$
@CaffeineAddiction correct!
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Nov 24 '18 at 23:51
3
3
$begingroup$
@CaffeineAddiction: Note that mage hand isn't a touch range spell, though, and can't be delivered through your familiar.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
Nov 24 '18 at 23:53
$begingroup$
@CaffeineAddiction: Note that mage hand isn't a touch range spell, though, and can't be delivered through your familiar.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
Nov 24 '18 at 23:53
$begingroup$
@V2Blast good point
$endgroup$
– CaffeineAddiction
Nov 24 '18 at 23:55
$begingroup$
@V2Blast good point
$endgroup$
– CaffeineAddiction
Nov 24 '18 at 23:55
add a comment |
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2
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I made some edits to your question. Do they still represent what you are trying to ask?
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– Rubiksmoose
Nov 24 '18 at 23:23
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@Rubiksmoose looks good
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– CaffeineAddiction
Nov 24 '18 at 23:26
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Also what do you mean by "eg use mage hand to pick pockets in a different city"? Do you mean that the humunculus-familiar attempts to pick pockets with mage hand while being in a different city from the rogue?
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– Rubiksmoose
Nov 24 '18 at 23:26
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From my understanding, the familiar is just a conduit of the spell ... not the caster itself. Could I use this effect to cast mage hand while outside of the normal range presented by the familiar.
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– CaffeineAddiction
Nov 24 '18 at 23:28
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@CaffeineAddiction: Reread the last paragraph of the find familiar spell description: "Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll."
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– V2Blast
Nov 24 '18 at 23:30