Why does Central Limit Theorem break down in my simulation?












10












$begingroup$


Let say I have following numbers:



4,3,5,6,5,3,4,2,5,4,3,6,5


I sample some of them, say, 5 of them, and calculate the sum of 5 samples.
Then I repeat that over and over to get many sums, and I plot the values of sums in a histogram, which will be Gaussian due to the Central Limit Theorem.



But when they are following numbers, I just replaced 4 with some big number:



4,3,5,6,5,3,10000000,2,5,4,3,6,5


Sampling sums of 5 samples from these never becomes Gaussian in histogram, but more like a split and becomes two Gaussians. Why is that?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$

















    10












    $begingroup$


    Let say I have following numbers:



    4,3,5,6,5,3,4,2,5,4,3,6,5


    I sample some of them, say, 5 of them, and calculate the sum of 5 samples.
    Then I repeat that over and over to get many sums, and I plot the values of sums in a histogram, which will be Gaussian due to the Central Limit Theorem.



    But when they are following numbers, I just replaced 4 with some big number:



    4,3,5,6,5,3,10000000,2,5,4,3,6,5


    Sampling sums of 5 samples from these never becomes Gaussian in histogram, but more like a split and becomes two Gaussians. Why is that?










    share|cite|improve this question











    $endgroup$















      10












      10








      10


      2



      $begingroup$


      Let say I have following numbers:



      4,3,5,6,5,3,4,2,5,4,3,6,5


      I sample some of them, say, 5 of them, and calculate the sum of 5 samples.
      Then I repeat that over and over to get many sums, and I plot the values of sums in a histogram, which will be Gaussian due to the Central Limit Theorem.



      But when they are following numbers, I just replaced 4 with some big number:



      4,3,5,6,5,3,10000000,2,5,4,3,6,5


      Sampling sums of 5 samples from these never becomes Gaussian in histogram, but more like a split and becomes two Gaussians. Why is that?










      share|cite|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      Let say I have following numbers:



      4,3,5,6,5,3,4,2,5,4,3,6,5


      I sample some of them, say, 5 of them, and calculate the sum of 5 samples.
      Then I repeat that over and over to get many sums, and I plot the values of sums in a histogram, which will be Gaussian due to the Central Limit Theorem.



      But when they are following numbers, I just replaced 4 with some big number:



      4,3,5,6,5,3,10000000,2,5,4,3,6,5


      Sampling sums of 5 samples from these never becomes Gaussian in histogram, but more like a split and becomes two Gaussians. Why is that?







      central-limit-theorem






      share|cite|improve this question















      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question








      edited 27 mins ago









      amoeba

      60.8k15205263




      60.8k15205263










      asked 10 hours ago









      JimSDJimSD

      686




      686






















          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          7












          $begingroup$

          Let's recall, precisely, what the central limit theorem says.




          If $X_1, X_2, cdots, X_k$ are independent and identically distributed random variables, then $frac{X_1 + X_2 + cdots + X_k}{k}$ converges in distribution to a normal distribution (*).




          When we have a static list of numbers like



          4,3,5,6,5,3,10000000,2,5,4,3,6,5


          and we are sampling by taking a number at random from this list, to apply the central limit theorem we need to be sure that our sampling scheme satisfies these two conditions of independence and identically distributed.




          • Identically distributed is no problem: each number in the list is equally likely to be chosen.

          • Independent is more subtle, and depends on our sampling scheme. If we are sampling with replacement, then we violate independence. It is only when we sample without replacement that the central limit theorem is applicable.


          So, if we use with replacement sampling in your scheme, then we should be able to apply the central limit theorem. At the same time, you are right, if our sample is of size 5, then we are going to see very different behaviour depending on if the very large number is chosen, or not chosen in our sample.



          So what's the rub? Well, the rate of convergence to a normal distribution is very dependent on the shape of the population we are sampling from, in particular, if our population is very skew, we expect it to take a long time to converge to the normal. This is the case in our example, so we should not expect that a sample of size 5 is sufficient to show the normal structure.



          Three Normal Distributions



          Above I repeated your experiment (with replacement sampling) for samples of size 5, 100, and 1000. You can see that the normal structure is emergent for very large samples.



          (*) Note there are some technical conditions needed here, like finite mean and variance. They are easily verified to be true in our sampling from a list example.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            Thank you for a very quick and perfect answer. Idea of CLT, replacement, the need for more samples when data distribution is skewed,... It is very clear now. My original intention of question is, just as you mentioned, the case when one large number is included without replacement and the number of sampling is fixed. It behaves very differently, and therefore we need to consider "conditional" CLT for the case a large number is sampled and the case not sampled. I wonder if there is any research or prior work for that.. But thank you anyway.
            $endgroup$
            – JimSD
            7 hours ago






          • 3




            $begingroup$
            "f we are sampling with replacement, then we violate independence." I think you meant to write "without replacement" here? Especially as you then go on to sample with replacement to invoke the CLT.
            $endgroup$
            – syntonym
            1 hour ago



















          5












          $begingroup$

          First of all, the size of each sample should be more than $5$ for the CLT approximation to be good. A rule of thumb is a sample of size $30$ or more. With the population of your first example, $30$ is in fact OK.



          pop <- c(4,3,5,6,5,3,4,2,5,4,3,6,5)
          N <- 10^5
          n <- 30
          x <- matrix(sample(pop, size = N*n, replace = TRUE), nrow = N)
          x_bar <- rowMeans(x)
          hist(x_bar, freq = FALSE, col = "cyan")
          f <- function(t) dnorm(t, mean = mean(pop), sd = sd(pop)/sqrt(n))
          curve(f, add = TRUE, lwd = 2, col = "red")


          enter image description here



          In your second example, because of the shape of the population distribution (it's too much skewed; see guy's comment bellow), samples of size $30$ won't give you a good approximation for the distribution of the sample mean using the CLT.



          pop <- c(4,3,5,6,5,3,10000000,2,5,4,3,6,5)
          N <- 10^5
          n <- 30
          x <- matrix(sample(pop, size = N*n, replace = TRUE), nrow = N)
          x_bar <- rowMeans(x)
          hist(x_bar, freq = FALSE, col = "cyan")
          f <- function(t) dnorm(t, mean = mean(pop), sd = sd(pop)/sqrt(n))
          curve(f, add = TRUE, lwd = 2, col = "red")


          enter image description here



          But, with this second population, samples of, say, size $100$ are fine.



          pop <- c(4,3,5,6,5,3,10000000,2,5,4,3,6,5)
          N <- 10^5
          n <- 100
          x <- matrix(sample(pop, size = N*n, replace = TRUE), nrow = N)
          x_bar <- rowMeans(x)
          hist(x_bar, freq = FALSE, col = "cyan")
          f <- function(t) dnorm(t, mean = mean(pop), sd = sd(pop)/sqrt(n))
          curve(f, add = TRUE, lwd = 2, col = "red")


          enter image description here






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$









          • 2




            $begingroup$
            It’s not the variance that is problem. One way of getting rigorous control is using the ratio of the third central moment to the standard deviation cubed, as in the Berry-Esseen theorem.
            $endgroup$
            – guy
            10 hours ago












          • $begingroup$
            Perfect. Added. Tks.
            $endgroup$
            – Paulo C. Marques F.
            10 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Thank you for a quick, visual, and perfect answer with a code. I was very surprised how quick it was! I was not aware of the appropriate number of sampling. I was thinking of the case where the number of sampling is fixed.
            $endgroup$
            – JimSD
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @guy, Thank you for the that. I didn't know the idea of "the ratio of the third central moment to the standard deviation cubed in Berry-Esseen theorem". I just wish to tackle the case where there is one large number like outlier is included in distribution. And that kind of distribution can be refereed to as you mentioned, I suppose. If if you know any prior work dealing with that kind of distribution, let me know, thank you.
            $endgroup$
            – JimSD
            6 hours ago



















          0












          $begingroup$

          Short answer is, you don't have a big enough sample to make central limit theorem apply.






          share|cite|improve this answer








          New contributor




          feynman is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.






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            3 Answers
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            3 Answers
            3






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            7












            $begingroup$

            Let's recall, precisely, what the central limit theorem says.




            If $X_1, X_2, cdots, X_k$ are independent and identically distributed random variables, then $frac{X_1 + X_2 + cdots + X_k}{k}$ converges in distribution to a normal distribution (*).




            When we have a static list of numbers like



            4,3,5,6,5,3,10000000,2,5,4,3,6,5


            and we are sampling by taking a number at random from this list, to apply the central limit theorem we need to be sure that our sampling scheme satisfies these two conditions of independence and identically distributed.




            • Identically distributed is no problem: each number in the list is equally likely to be chosen.

            • Independent is more subtle, and depends on our sampling scheme. If we are sampling with replacement, then we violate independence. It is only when we sample without replacement that the central limit theorem is applicable.


            So, if we use with replacement sampling in your scheme, then we should be able to apply the central limit theorem. At the same time, you are right, if our sample is of size 5, then we are going to see very different behaviour depending on if the very large number is chosen, or not chosen in our sample.



            So what's the rub? Well, the rate of convergence to a normal distribution is very dependent on the shape of the population we are sampling from, in particular, if our population is very skew, we expect it to take a long time to converge to the normal. This is the case in our example, so we should not expect that a sample of size 5 is sufficient to show the normal structure.



            Three Normal Distributions



            Above I repeated your experiment (with replacement sampling) for samples of size 5, 100, and 1000. You can see that the normal structure is emergent for very large samples.



            (*) Note there are some technical conditions needed here, like finite mean and variance. They are easily verified to be true in our sampling from a list example.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              Thank you for a very quick and perfect answer. Idea of CLT, replacement, the need for more samples when data distribution is skewed,... It is very clear now. My original intention of question is, just as you mentioned, the case when one large number is included without replacement and the number of sampling is fixed. It behaves very differently, and therefore we need to consider "conditional" CLT for the case a large number is sampled and the case not sampled. I wonder if there is any research or prior work for that.. But thank you anyway.
              $endgroup$
              – JimSD
              7 hours ago






            • 3




              $begingroup$
              "f we are sampling with replacement, then we violate independence." I think you meant to write "without replacement" here? Especially as you then go on to sample with replacement to invoke the CLT.
              $endgroup$
              – syntonym
              1 hour ago
















            7












            $begingroup$

            Let's recall, precisely, what the central limit theorem says.




            If $X_1, X_2, cdots, X_k$ are independent and identically distributed random variables, then $frac{X_1 + X_2 + cdots + X_k}{k}$ converges in distribution to a normal distribution (*).




            When we have a static list of numbers like



            4,3,5,6,5,3,10000000,2,5,4,3,6,5


            and we are sampling by taking a number at random from this list, to apply the central limit theorem we need to be sure that our sampling scheme satisfies these two conditions of independence and identically distributed.




            • Identically distributed is no problem: each number in the list is equally likely to be chosen.

            • Independent is more subtle, and depends on our sampling scheme. If we are sampling with replacement, then we violate independence. It is only when we sample without replacement that the central limit theorem is applicable.


            So, if we use with replacement sampling in your scheme, then we should be able to apply the central limit theorem. At the same time, you are right, if our sample is of size 5, then we are going to see very different behaviour depending on if the very large number is chosen, or not chosen in our sample.



            So what's the rub? Well, the rate of convergence to a normal distribution is very dependent on the shape of the population we are sampling from, in particular, if our population is very skew, we expect it to take a long time to converge to the normal. This is the case in our example, so we should not expect that a sample of size 5 is sufficient to show the normal structure.



            Three Normal Distributions



            Above I repeated your experiment (with replacement sampling) for samples of size 5, 100, and 1000. You can see that the normal structure is emergent for very large samples.



            (*) Note there are some technical conditions needed here, like finite mean and variance. They are easily verified to be true in our sampling from a list example.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              Thank you for a very quick and perfect answer. Idea of CLT, replacement, the need for more samples when data distribution is skewed,... It is very clear now. My original intention of question is, just as you mentioned, the case when one large number is included without replacement and the number of sampling is fixed. It behaves very differently, and therefore we need to consider "conditional" CLT for the case a large number is sampled and the case not sampled. I wonder if there is any research or prior work for that.. But thank you anyway.
              $endgroup$
              – JimSD
              7 hours ago






            • 3




              $begingroup$
              "f we are sampling with replacement, then we violate independence." I think you meant to write "without replacement" here? Especially as you then go on to sample with replacement to invoke the CLT.
              $endgroup$
              – syntonym
              1 hour ago














            7












            7








            7





            $begingroup$

            Let's recall, precisely, what the central limit theorem says.




            If $X_1, X_2, cdots, X_k$ are independent and identically distributed random variables, then $frac{X_1 + X_2 + cdots + X_k}{k}$ converges in distribution to a normal distribution (*).




            When we have a static list of numbers like



            4,3,5,6,5,3,10000000,2,5,4,3,6,5


            and we are sampling by taking a number at random from this list, to apply the central limit theorem we need to be sure that our sampling scheme satisfies these two conditions of independence and identically distributed.




            • Identically distributed is no problem: each number in the list is equally likely to be chosen.

            • Independent is more subtle, and depends on our sampling scheme. If we are sampling with replacement, then we violate independence. It is only when we sample without replacement that the central limit theorem is applicable.


            So, if we use with replacement sampling in your scheme, then we should be able to apply the central limit theorem. At the same time, you are right, if our sample is of size 5, then we are going to see very different behaviour depending on if the very large number is chosen, or not chosen in our sample.



            So what's the rub? Well, the rate of convergence to a normal distribution is very dependent on the shape of the population we are sampling from, in particular, if our population is very skew, we expect it to take a long time to converge to the normal. This is the case in our example, so we should not expect that a sample of size 5 is sufficient to show the normal structure.



            Three Normal Distributions



            Above I repeated your experiment (with replacement sampling) for samples of size 5, 100, and 1000. You can see that the normal structure is emergent for very large samples.



            (*) Note there are some technical conditions needed here, like finite mean and variance. They are easily verified to be true in our sampling from a list example.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$



            Let's recall, precisely, what the central limit theorem says.




            If $X_1, X_2, cdots, X_k$ are independent and identically distributed random variables, then $frac{X_1 + X_2 + cdots + X_k}{k}$ converges in distribution to a normal distribution (*).




            When we have a static list of numbers like



            4,3,5,6,5,3,10000000,2,5,4,3,6,5


            and we are sampling by taking a number at random from this list, to apply the central limit theorem we need to be sure that our sampling scheme satisfies these two conditions of independence and identically distributed.




            • Identically distributed is no problem: each number in the list is equally likely to be chosen.

            • Independent is more subtle, and depends on our sampling scheme. If we are sampling with replacement, then we violate independence. It is only when we sample without replacement that the central limit theorem is applicable.


            So, if we use with replacement sampling in your scheme, then we should be able to apply the central limit theorem. At the same time, you are right, if our sample is of size 5, then we are going to see very different behaviour depending on if the very large number is chosen, or not chosen in our sample.



            So what's the rub? Well, the rate of convergence to a normal distribution is very dependent on the shape of the population we are sampling from, in particular, if our population is very skew, we expect it to take a long time to converge to the normal. This is the case in our example, so we should not expect that a sample of size 5 is sufficient to show the normal structure.



            Three Normal Distributions



            Above I repeated your experiment (with replacement sampling) for samples of size 5, 100, and 1000. You can see that the normal structure is emergent for very large samples.



            (*) Note there are some technical conditions needed here, like finite mean and variance. They are easily verified to be true in our sampling from a list example.







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited 10 hours ago

























            answered 10 hours ago









            Matthew DruryMatthew Drury

            26.1k263105




            26.1k263105












            • $begingroup$
              Thank you for a very quick and perfect answer. Idea of CLT, replacement, the need for more samples when data distribution is skewed,... It is very clear now. My original intention of question is, just as you mentioned, the case when one large number is included without replacement and the number of sampling is fixed. It behaves very differently, and therefore we need to consider "conditional" CLT for the case a large number is sampled and the case not sampled. I wonder if there is any research or prior work for that.. But thank you anyway.
              $endgroup$
              – JimSD
              7 hours ago






            • 3




              $begingroup$
              "f we are sampling with replacement, then we violate independence." I think you meant to write "without replacement" here? Especially as you then go on to sample with replacement to invoke the CLT.
              $endgroup$
              – syntonym
              1 hour ago


















            • $begingroup$
              Thank you for a very quick and perfect answer. Idea of CLT, replacement, the need for more samples when data distribution is skewed,... It is very clear now. My original intention of question is, just as you mentioned, the case when one large number is included without replacement and the number of sampling is fixed. It behaves very differently, and therefore we need to consider "conditional" CLT for the case a large number is sampled and the case not sampled. I wonder if there is any research or prior work for that.. But thank you anyway.
              $endgroup$
              – JimSD
              7 hours ago






            • 3




              $begingroup$
              "f we are sampling with replacement, then we violate independence." I think you meant to write "without replacement" here? Especially as you then go on to sample with replacement to invoke the CLT.
              $endgroup$
              – syntonym
              1 hour ago
















            $begingroup$
            Thank you for a very quick and perfect answer. Idea of CLT, replacement, the need for more samples when data distribution is skewed,... It is very clear now. My original intention of question is, just as you mentioned, the case when one large number is included without replacement and the number of sampling is fixed. It behaves very differently, and therefore we need to consider "conditional" CLT for the case a large number is sampled and the case not sampled. I wonder if there is any research or prior work for that.. But thank you anyway.
            $endgroup$
            – JimSD
            7 hours ago




            $begingroup$
            Thank you for a very quick and perfect answer. Idea of CLT, replacement, the need for more samples when data distribution is skewed,... It is very clear now. My original intention of question is, just as you mentioned, the case when one large number is included without replacement and the number of sampling is fixed. It behaves very differently, and therefore we need to consider "conditional" CLT for the case a large number is sampled and the case not sampled. I wonder if there is any research or prior work for that.. But thank you anyway.
            $endgroup$
            – JimSD
            7 hours ago




            3




            3




            $begingroup$
            "f we are sampling with replacement, then we violate independence." I think you meant to write "without replacement" here? Especially as you then go on to sample with replacement to invoke the CLT.
            $endgroup$
            – syntonym
            1 hour ago




            $begingroup$
            "f we are sampling with replacement, then we violate independence." I think you meant to write "without replacement" here? Especially as you then go on to sample with replacement to invoke the CLT.
            $endgroup$
            – syntonym
            1 hour ago













            5












            $begingroup$

            First of all, the size of each sample should be more than $5$ for the CLT approximation to be good. A rule of thumb is a sample of size $30$ or more. With the population of your first example, $30$ is in fact OK.



            pop <- c(4,3,5,6,5,3,4,2,5,4,3,6,5)
            N <- 10^5
            n <- 30
            x <- matrix(sample(pop, size = N*n, replace = TRUE), nrow = N)
            x_bar <- rowMeans(x)
            hist(x_bar, freq = FALSE, col = "cyan")
            f <- function(t) dnorm(t, mean = mean(pop), sd = sd(pop)/sqrt(n))
            curve(f, add = TRUE, lwd = 2, col = "red")


            enter image description here



            In your second example, because of the shape of the population distribution (it's too much skewed; see guy's comment bellow), samples of size $30$ won't give you a good approximation for the distribution of the sample mean using the CLT.



            pop <- c(4,3,5,6,5,3,10000000,2,5,4,3,6,5)
            N <- 10^5
            n <- 30
            x <- matrix(sample(pop, size = N*n, replace = TRUE), nrow = N)
            x_bar <- rowMeans(x)
            hist(x_bar, freq = FALSE, col = "cyan")
            f <- function(t) dnorm(t, mean = mean(pop), sd = sd(pop)/sqrt(n))
            curve(f, add = TRUE, lwd = 2, col = "red")


            enter image description here



            But, with this second population, samples of, say, size $100$ are fine.



            pop <- c(4,3,5,6,5,3,10000000,2,5,4,3,6,5)
            N <- 10^5
            n <- 100
            x <- matrix(sample(pop, size = N*n, replace = TRUE), nrow = N)
            x_bar <- rowMeans(x)
            hist(x_bar, freq = FALSE, col = "cyan")
            f <- function(t) dnorm(t, mean = mean(pop), sd = sd(pop)/sqrt(n))
            curve(f, add = TRUE, lwd = 2, col = "red")


            enter image description here






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$









            • 2




              $begingroup$
              It’s not the variance that is problem. One way of getting rigorous control is using the ratio of the third central moment to the standard deviation cubed, as in the Berry-Esseen theorem.
              $endgroup$
              – guy
              10 hours ago












            • $begingroup$
              Perfect. Added. Tks.
              $endgroup$
              – Paulo C. Marques F.
              10 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              Thank you for a quick, visual, and perfect answer with a code. I was very surprised how quick it was! I was not aware of the appropriate number of sampling. I was thinking of the case where the number of sampling is fixed.
              $endgroup$
              – JimSD
              7 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @guy, Thank you for the that. I didn't know the idea of "the ratio of the third central moment to the standard deviation cubed in Berry-Esseen theorem". I just wish to tackle the case where there is one large number like outlier is included in distribution. And that kind of distribution can be refereed to as you mentioned, I suppose. If if you know any prior work dealing with that kind of distribution, let me know, thank you.
              $endgroup$
              – JimSD
              6 hours ago
















            5












            $begingroup$

            First of all, the size of each sample should be more than $5$ for the CLT approximation to be good. A rule of thumb is a sample of size $30$ or more. With the population of your first example, $30$ is in fact OK.



            pop <- c(4,3,5,6,5,3,4,2,5,4,3,6,5)
            N <- 10^5
            n <- 30
            x <- matrix(sample(pop, size = N*n, replace = TRUE), nrow = N)
            x_bar <- rowMeans(x)
            hist(x_bar, freq = FALSE, col = "cyan")
            f <- function(t) dnorm(t, mean = mean(pop), sd = sd(pop)/sqrt(n))
            curve(f, add = TRUE, lwd = 2, col = "red")


            enter image description here



            In your second example, because of the shape of the population distribution (it's too much skewed; see guy's comment bellow), samples of size $30$ won't give you a good approximation for the distribution of the sample mean using the CLT.



            pop <- c(4,3,5,6,5,3,10000000,2,5,4,3,6,5)
            N <- 10^5
            n <- 30
            x <- matrix(sample(pop, size = N*n, replace = TRUE), nrow = N)
            x_bar <- rowMeans(x)
            hist(x_bar, freq = FALSE, col = "cyan")
            f <- function(t) dnorm(t, mean = mean(pop), sd = sd(pop)/sqrt(n))
            curve(f, add = TRUE, lwd = 2, col = "red")


            enter image description here



            But, with this second population, samples of, say, size $100$ are fine.



            pop <- c(4,3,5,6,5,3,10000000,2,5,4,3,6,5)
            N <- 10^5
            n <- 100
            x <- matrix(sample(pop, size = N*n, replace = TRUE), nrow = N)
            x_bar <- rowMeans(x)
            hist(x_bar, freq = FALSE, col = "cyan")
            f <- function(t) dnorm(t, mean = mean(pop), sd = sd(pop)/sqrt(n))
            curve(f, add = TRUE, lwd = 2, col = "red")


            enter image description here






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$









            • 2




              $begingroup$
              It’s not the variance that is problem. One way of getting rigorous control is using the ratio of the third central moment to the standard deviation cubed, as in the Berry-Esseen theorem.
              $endgroup$
              – guy
              10 hours ago












            • $begingroup$
              Perfect. Added. Tks.
              $endgroup$
              – Paulo C. Marques F.
              10 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              Thank you for a quick, visual, and perfect answer with a code. I was very surprised how quick it was! I was not aware of the appropriate number of sampling. I was thinking of the case where the number of sampling is fixed.
              $endgroup$
              – JimSD
              7 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @guy, Thank you for the that. I didn't know the idea of "the ratio of the third central moment to the standard deviation cubed in Berry-Esseen theorem". I just wish to tackle the case where there is one large number like outlier is included in distribution. And that kind of distribution can be refereed to as you mentioned, I suppose. If if you know any prior work dealing with that kind of distribution, let me know, thank you.
              $endgroup$
              – JimSD
              6 hours ago














            5












            5








            5





            $begingroup$

            First of all, the size of each sample should be more than $5$ for the CLT approximation to be good. A rule of thumb is a sample of size $30$ or more. With the population of your first example, $30$ is in fact OK.



            pop <- c(4,3,5,6,5,3,4,2,5,4,3,6,5)
            N <- 10^5
            n <- 30
            x <- matrix(sample(pop, size = N*n, replace = TRUE), nrow = N)
            x_bar <- rowMeans(x)
            hist(x_bar, freq = FALSE, col = "cyan")
            f <- function(t) dnorm(t, mean = mean(pop), sd = sd(pop)/sqrt(n))
            curve(f, add = TRUE, lwd = 2, col = "red")


            enter image description here



            In your second example, because of the shape of the population distribution (it's too much skewed; see guy's comment bellow), samples of size $30$ won't give you a good approximation for the distribution of the sample mean using the CLT.



            pop <- c(4,3,5,6,5,3,10000000,2,5,4,3,6,5)
            N <- 10^5
            n <- 30
            x <- matrix(sample(pop, size = N*n, replace = TRUE), nrow = N)
            x_bar <- rowMeans(x)
            hist(x_bar, freq = FALSE, col = "cyan")
            f <- function(t) dnorm(t, mean = mean(pop), sd = sd(pop)/sqrt(n))
            curve(f, add = TRUE, lwd = 2, col = "red")


            enter image description here



            But, with this second population, samples of, say, size $100$ are fine.



            pop <- c(4,3,5,6,5,3,10000000,2,5,4,3,6,5)
            N <- 10^5
            n <- 100
            x <- matrix(sample(pop, size = N*n, replace = TRUE), nrow = N)
            x_bar <- rowMeans(x)
            hist(x_bar, freq = FALSE, col = "cyan")
            f <- function(t) dnorm(t, mean = mean(pop), sd = sd(pop)/sqrt(n))
            curve(f, add = TRUE, lwd = 2, col = "red")


            enter image description here






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$



            First of all, the size of each sample should be more than $5$ for the CLT approximation to be good. A rule of thumb is a sample of size $30$ or more. With the population of your first example, $30$ is in fact OK.



            pop <- c(4,3,5,6,5,3,4,2,5,4,3,6,5)
            N <- 10^5
            n <- 30
            x <- matrix(sample(pop, size = N*n, replace = TRUE), nrow = N)
            x_bar <- rowMeans(x)
            hist(x_bar, freq = FALSE, col = "cyan")
            f <- function(t) dnorm(t, mean = mean(pop), sd = sd(pop)/sqrt(n))
            curve(f, add = TRUE, lwd = 2, col = "red")


            enter image description here



            In your second example, because of the shape of the population distribution (it's too much skewed; see guy's comment bellow), samples of size $30$ won't give you a good approximation for the distribution of the sample mean using the CLT.



            pop <- c(4,3,5,6,5,3,10000000,2,5,4,3,6,5)
            N <- 10^5
            n <- 30
            x <- matrix(sample(pop, size = N*n, replace = TRUE), nrow = N)
            x_bar <- rowMeans(x)
            hist(x_bar, freq = FALSE, col = "cyan")
            f <- function(t) dnorm(t, mean = mean(pop), sd = sd(pop)/sqrt(n))
            curve(f, add = TRUE, lwd = 2, col = "red")


            enter image description here



            But, with this second population, samples of, say, size $100$ are fine.



            pop <- c(4,3,5,6,5,3,10000000,2,5,4,3,6,5)
            N <- 10^5
            n <- 100
            x <- matrix(sample(pop, size = N*n, replace = TRUE), nrow = N)
            x_bar <- rowMeans(x)
            hist(x_bar, freq = FALSE, col = "cyan")
            f <- function(t) dnorm(t, mean = mean(pop), sd = sd(pop)/sqrt(n))
            curve(f, add = TRUE, lwd = 2, col = "red")


            enter image description here







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited 10 hours ago

























            answered 10 hours ago









            Paulo C. Marques F.Paulo C. Marques F.

            17.2k35497




            17.2k35497








            • 2




              $begingroup$
              It’s not the variance that is problem. One way of getting rigorous control is using the ratio of the third central moment to the standard deviation cubed, as in the Berry-Esseen theorem.
              $endgroup$
              – guy
              10 hours ago












            • $begingroup$
              Perfect. Added. Tks.
              $endgroup$
              – Paulo C. Marques F.
              10 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              Thank you for a quick, visual, and perfect answer with a code. I was very surprised how quick it was! I was not aware of the appropriate number of sampling. I was thinking of the case where the number of sampling is fixed.
              $endgroup$
              – JimSD
              7 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @guy, Thank you for the that. I didn't know the idea of "the ratio of the third central moment to the standard deviation cubed in Berry-Esseen theorem". I just wish to tackle the case where there is one large number like outlier is included in distribution. And that kind of distribution can be refereed to as you mentioned, I suppose. If if you know any prior work dealing with that kind of distribution, let me know, thank you.
              $endgroup$
              – JimSD
              6 hours ago














            • 2




              $begingroup$
              It’s not the variance that is problem. One way of getting rigorous control is using the ratio of the third central moment to the standard deviation cubed, as in the Berry-Esseen theorem.
              $endgroup$
              – guy
              10 hours ago












            • $begingroup$
              Perfect. Added. Tks.
              $endgroup$
              – Paulo C. Marques F.
              10 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              Thank you for a quick, visual, and perfect answer with a code. I was very surprised how quick it was! I was not aware of the appropriate number of sampling. I was thinking of the case where the number of sampling is fixed.
              $endgroup$
              – JimSD
              7 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @guy, Thank you for the that. I didn't know the idea of "the ratio of the third central moment to the standard deviation cubed in Berry-Esseen theorem". I just wish to tackle the case where there is one large number like outlier is included in distribution. And that kind of distribution can be refereed to as you mentioned, I suppose. If if you know any prior work dealing with that kind of distribution, let me know, thank you.
              $endgroup$
              – JimSD
              6 hours ago








            2




            2




            $begingroup$
            It’s not the variance that is problem. One way of getting rigorous control is using the ratio of the third central moment to the standard deviation cubed, as in the Berry-Esseen theorem.
            $endgroup$
            – guy
            10 hours ago






            $begingroup$
            It’s not the variance that is problem. One way of getting rigorous control is using the ratio of the third central moment to the standard deviation cubed, as in the Berry-Esseen theorem.
            $endgroup$
            – guy
            10 hours ago














            $begingroup$
            Perfect. Added. Tks.
            $endgroup$
            – Paulo C. Marques F.
            10 hours ago




            $begingroup$
            Perfect. Added. Tks.
            $endgroup$
            – Paulo C. Marques F.
            10 hours ago












            $begingroup$
            Thank you for a quick, visual, and perfect answer with a code. I was very surprised how quick it was! I was not aware of the appropriate number of sampling. I was thinking of the case where the number of sampling is fixed.
            $endgroup$
            – JimSD
            7 hours ago




            $begingroup$
            Thank you for a quick, visual, and perfect answer with a code. I was very surprised how quick it was! I was not aware of the appropriate number of sampling. I was thinking of the case where the number of sampling is fixed.
            $endgroup$
            – JimSD
            7 hours ago












            $begingroup$
            @guy, Thank you for the that. I didn't know the idea of "the ratio of the third central moment to the standard deviation cubed in Berry-Esseen theorem". I just wish to tackle the case where there is one large number like outlier is included in distribution. And that kind of distribution can be refereed to as you mentioned, I suppose. If if you know any prior work dealing with that kind of distribution, let me know, thank you.
            $endgroup$
            – JimSD
            6 hours ago




            $begingroup$
            @guy, Thank you for the that. I didn't know the idea of "the ratio of the third central moment to the standard deviation cubed in Berry-Esseen theorem". I just wish to tackle the case where there is one large number like outlier is included in distribution. And that kind of distribution can be refereed to as you mentioned, I suppose. If if you know any prior work dealing with that kind of distribution, let me know, thank you.
            $endgroup$
            – JimSD
            6 hours ago











            0












            $begingroup$

            Short answer is, you don't have a big enough sample to make central limit theorem apply.






            share|cite|improve this answer








            New contributor




            feynman is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.






            $endgroup$


















              0












              $begingroup$

              Short answer is, you don't have a big enough sample to make central limit theorem apply.






              share|cite|improve this answer








              New contributor




              feynman is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
              Check out our Code of Conduct.






              $endgroup$
















                0












                0








                0





                $begingroup$

                Short answer is, you don't have a big enough sample to make central limit theorem apply.






                share|cite|improve this answer








                New contributor




                feynman is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.






                $endgroup$



                Short answer is, you don't have a big enough sample to make central limit theorem apply.







                share|cite|improve this answer








                New contributor




                feynman is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer






                New contributor




                feynman is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                answered 37 mins ago









                feynmanfeynman

                101




                101




                New contributor




                feynman is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                New contributor





                feynman is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.






                feynman is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.






























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