How do I justify a mansplainer/misogynist?
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I have a male character who is coming across as patronizing and mansplain-y.
He has several scenes where he tells a (different) female protagonist how she should behave, or assumes she doesn't understand and corrects her. I've been using him as a pretext for exposition, to explain when the protagonists are wrong. I didn't realize it's just about all he does.
In my original draft he was the responsible one, kind of a "dad" who disapproves of their recklessness.
- He assumes one is sexually naive and warns her (she isn't naive).
- He tells the second to stop dressing provocatively around his men (she has been).
- He bawls out a third for taking dangerous risks (she has been).
- He is overprotective (again)
- He casts doubt on the provocative woman's trustworthiness (his suspicions are later justified).
When I examined him as character, I realized I've been using him to say what the reader needs to know, but the protagonists don't want to hear.
"Pull yourself together because [_e_x_p_o_s_i_t_i_o_n_]!"
"Don't trust that woman because [_e_x_p_o_s_i_t_i_o_n_]."
Coincidentally, his advice is perfect and his character is flat.
I want to flip the character, and use the patronizing pattern to discount his testimony against the provocative woman. He has a strong distrust of her from the start, ultimately admits sexual attraction.
He can't be a frothing at the mouth villain or commit overt sabotage – he is still a good guy, but I need to sew seeds of doubt in the reader and stir conflict within the team.
How do I get the reader to see him as misogynist, so sympathy shifts to the woman? Is there a point of no return? Can he regain reader trust once he is vindicated?
characters
asked 4 hours ago
wetcircuit
7,1511338
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up vote
1
down vote
favorite
I have a male character who is coming across as patronizing and mansplain-y.
He has several scenes where he tells a (different) female protagonist how she should behave, or assumes she doesn't understand and corrects her. I've been using him as a pretext for exposition, to explain when the protagonists are wrong. I didn't realize it's just about all he does.
In my original draft he was the responsible one, kind of a "dad" who disapproves of their recklessness.
- He assumes one is sexually naive and warns her (she isn't naive).
- He tells the second to stop dressing provocatively around his men (she has been).
- He bawls out a third for taking dangerous risks (she has been).
- He is overprotective (again)
- He casts doubt on the provocative woman's trustworthiness (his suspicions are later justified).
When I examined him as character, I realized I've been using him to say what the reader needs to know, but the protagonists don't want to hear.
"Pull yourself together because [_e_x_p_o_s_i_t_i_o_n_]!"
"Don't trust that woman because [_e_x_p_o_s_i_t_i_o_n_]."
Coincidentally, his advice is perfect and his character is flat.
I want to flip the character, and use the patronizing pattern to discount his testimony against the provocative woman. He has a strong distrust of her from the start, ultimately admits sexual attraction.
He can't be a frothing at the mouth villain or commit overt sabotage – he is still a good guy, but I need to sew seeds of doubt in the reader and stir conflict within the team.
How do I get the reader to see him as misogynist, so sympathy shifts to the woman? Is there a point of no return? Can he regain reader trust once he is vindicated?
characters
asked 4 hours ago
wetcircuit
7,1511338
2
Is this character a perfect product of his society (say, your story is set in XIX century), or he is unacceptably old-fashioned?
– Alexander
2 hours ago
@Alexander I need him to remain credible. I think his issue is that SOME women need to be protected while SOME women are just bad (one woman in particular who happens to be the sexy one). He is not a crusader making speeches against women, but he has a bias against this woman he feels is too sexy and untrustworthy.
– wetcircuit
2 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
I have a male character who is coming across as patronizing and mansplain-y.
He has several scenes where he tells a (different) female protagonist how she should behave, or assumes she doesn't understand and corrects her. I've been using him as a pretext for exposition, to explain when the protagonists are wrong. I didn't realize it's just about all he does.
In my original draft he was the responsible one, kind of a "dad" who disapproves of their recklessness.
- He assumes one is sexually naive and warns her (she isn't naive).
- He tells the second to stop dressing provocatively around his men (she has been).
- He bawls out a third for taking dangerous risks (she has been).
- He is overprotective (again)
- He casts doubt on the provocative woman's trustworthiness (his suspicions are later justified).
When I examined him as character, I realized I've been using him to say what the reader needs to know, but the protagonists don't want to hear.
"Pull yourself together because [_e_x_p_o_s_i_t_i_o_n_]!"
"Don't trust that woman because [_e_x_p_o_s_i_t_i_o_n_]."
Coincidentally, his advice is perfect and his character is flat.
I want to flip the character, and use the patronizing pattern to discount his testimony against the provocative woman. He has a strong distrust of her from the start, ultimately admits sexual attraction.
He can't be a frothing at the mouth villain or commit overt sabotage – he is still a good guy, but I need to sew seeds of doubt in the reader and stir conflict within the team.
How do I get the reader to see him as misogynist, so sympathy shifts to the woman? Is there a point of no return? Can he regain reader trust once he is vindicated?
characters
asked 4 hours ago
wetcircuit
7,1511338
I have a male character who is coming across as patronizing and mansplain-y.
He has several scenes where he tells a (different) female protagonist how she should behave, or assumes she doesn't understand and corrects her. I've been using him as a pretext for exposition, to explain when the protagonists are wrong. I didn't realize it's just about all he does.
In my original draft he was the responsible one, kind of a "dad" who disapproves of their recklessness.
- He assumes one is sexually naive and warns her (she isn't naive).
- He tells the second to stop dressing provocatively around his men (she has been).
- He bawls out a third for taking dangerous risks (she has been).
- He is overprotective (again)
- He casts doubt on the provocative woman's trustworthiness (his suspicions are later justified).
When I examined him as character, I realized I've been using him to say what the reader needs to know, but the protagonists don't want to hear.
"Pull yourself together because [_e_x_p_o_s_i_t_i_o_n_]!"
"Don't trust that woman because [_e_x_p_o_s_i_t_i_o_n_]."
Coincidentally, his advice is perfect and his character is flat.
I want to flip the character, and use the patronizing pattern to discount his testimony against the provocative woman. He has a strong distrust of her from the start, ultimately admits sexual attraction.
He can't be a frothing at the mouth villain or commit overt sabotage – he is still a good guy, but I need to sew seeds of doubt in the reader and stir conflict within the team.
How do I get the reader to see him as misogynist, so sympathy shifts to the woman? Is there a point of no return? Can he regain reader trust once he is vindicated?
characters
characters
asked 4 hours ago
wetcircuit
7,1511338
asked 4 hours ago
wetcircuit
7,1511338
edited 1 hour ago
asked 4 hours ago
wetcircuit
7,1511338
asked 4 hours ago
wetcircuit
7,1511338
asked 4 hours ago
wetcircuit
7,1511338
7,1511338
2
Is this character a perfect product of his society (say, your story is set in XIX century), or he is unacceptably old-fashioned?
– Alexander
2 hours ago
@Alexander I need him to remain credible. I think his issue is that SOME women need to be protected while SOME women are just bad (one woman in particular who happens to be the sexy one). He is not a crusader making speeches against women, but he has a bias against this woman he feels is too sexy and untrustworthy.
– wetcircuit
2 hours ago
add a comment |
2
Is this character a perfect product of his society (say, your story is set in XIX century), or he is unacceptably old-fashioned?
– Alexander
2 hours ago
@Alexander I need him to remain credible. I think his issue is that SOME women need to be protected while SOME women are just bad (one woman in particular who happens to be the sexy one). He is not a crusader making speeches against women, but he has a bias against this woman he feels is too sexy and untrustworthy.
– wetcircuit
2 hours ago
2
2
Is this character a perfect product of his society (say, your story is set in XIX century), or he is unacceptably old-fashioned?
– Alexander
2 hours ago
Is this character a perfect product of his society (say, your story is set in XIX century), or he is unacceptably old-fashioned?
– Alexander
2 hours ago
@Alexander I need him to remain credible. I think his issue is that SOME women need to be protected while SOME women are just bad (one woman in particular who happens to be the sexy one). He is not a crusader making speeches against women, but he has a bias against this woman he feels is too sexy and untrustworthy.
– wetcircuit
2 hours ago
@Alexander I need him to remain credible. I think his issue is that SOME women need to be protected while SOME women are just bad (one woman in particular who happens to be the sexy one). He is not a crusader making speeches against women, but he has a bias against this woman he feels is too sexy and untrustworthy.
– wetcircuit
2 hours ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
A good way of having a genuinely misogynistic person who also has a spark of good despite those beliefs is the 'protective' misogynist; the one who stops women doing things of their own volition out of a protective instinct.
Oh, they're definitely undermining women and being a sexist idiot, but at the same time, it's coming from a place that ultimately wants to help women (even if that help is utterly unwarranted/unnecessary).
This way, he can come off as well-meaning, but patronising, and ultimately still wrong.
answered 2 hours ago
Matthew Dave
5,427736
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
A good way of having a genuinely misogynistic person who also has a spark of good despite those beliefs is the 'protective' misogynist; the one who stops women doing things of their own volition out of a protective instinct.
Oh, they're definitely undermining women and being a sexist idiot, but at the same time, it's coming from a place that ultimately wants to help women (even if that help is utterly unwarranted/unnecessary).
This way, he can come off as well-meaning, but patronising, and ultimately still wrong.
answered 2 hours ago
Matthew Dave
5,427736
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
A good way of having a genuinely misogynistic person who also has a spark of good despite those beliefs is the 'protective' misogynist; the one who stops women doing things of their own volition out of a protective instinct.
Oh, they're definitely undermining women and being a sexist idiot, but at the same time, it's coming from a place that ultimately wants to help women (even if that help is utterly unwarranted/unnecessary).
This way, he can come off as well-meaning, but patronising, and ultimately still wrong.
answered 2 hours ago
Matthew Dave
5,427736
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
A good way of having a genuinely misogynistic person who also has a spark of good despite those beliefs is the 'protective' misogynist; the one who stops women doing things of their own volition out of a protective instinct.
Oh, they're definitely undermining women and being a sexist idiot, but at the same time, it's coming from a place that ultimately wants to help women (even if that help is utterly unwarranted/unnecessary).
This way, he can come off as well-meaning, but patronising, and ultimately still wrong.
answered 2 hours ago
Matthew Dave
5,427736
A good way of having a genuinely misogynistic person who also has a spark of good despite those beliefs is the 'protective' misogynist; the one who stops women doing things of their own volition out of a protective instinct.
Oh, they're definitely undermining women and being a sexist idiot, but at the same time, it's coming from a place that ultimately wants to help women (even if that help is utterly unwarranted/unnecessary).
This way, he can come off as well-meaning, but patronising, and ultimately still wrong.
answered 2 hours ago
Matthew Dave
5,427736
answered 2 hours ago
Matthew Dave
5,427736
answered 2 hours ago
Matthew Dave
5,427736
answered 2 hours ago
Matthew Dave
5,427736
5,427736
add a comment |
add a comment |
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2
Is this character a perfect product of his society (say, your story is set in XIX century), or he is unacceptably old-fashioned?
– Alexander
2 hours ago
@Alexander I need him to remain credible. I think his issue is that SOME women need to be protected while SOME women are just bad (one woman in particular who happens to be the sexy one). He is not a crusader making speeches against women, but he has a bias against this woman he feels is too sexy and untrustworthy.
– wetcircuit
2 hours ago