Does a true polymorphed familiar retain the mechanical benefits of a familiar?











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If I use find familiar as an Arcane Trickster Rogue, then have a high level wizard cast (concentration) true polymorph on said familiar to turn them into a homunculus, would the familiar still retain the mechanical benefits granted by the spell?



Specifically,




  • Would the Homunculus be telepathically linked to my Rogue? (anywhere on the same plane of existence)?

  • Would the familiar still "deliver a spell with a range of touch" (eg use mage hand to pick pockets in a different city)?










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CaffeineAddiction is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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  • 2




    I made some edits to your question. Do they still represent what you are trying to ask?
    – Rubiksmoose
    2 hours ago










  • @Rubiksmoose looks good
    – CaffeineAddiction
    2 hours ago










  • Also what do you mean by "eg use mage hand to pick pockets in a different city"? Do you mean that the humunculus-familiar attempts to pick pockets with mage hand while being in a different city from the rogue?
    – Rubiksmoose
    2 hours ago










  • From my understanding, the familiar is just a conduit of the spell ... not the caster itself. Could I use this effect to cast mage hand while outside of the normal range presented by the familiar.
    – CaffeineAddiction
    2 hours ago












  • @CaffeineAddiction: Reread the last paragraph of the find familiar spell description: "Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll."
    – V2Blast
    2 hours ago















up vote
2
down vote

favorite
1












If I use find familiar as an Arcane Trickster Rogue, then have a high level wizard cast (concentration) true polymorph on said familiar to turn them into a homunculus, would the familiar still retain the mechanical benefits granted by the spell?



Specifically,




  • Would the Homunculus be telepathically linked to my Rogue? (anywhere on the same plane of existence)?

  • Would the familiar still "deliver a spell with a range of touch" (eg use mage hand to pick pockets in a different city)?










share|improve this question









New contributor




CaffeineAddiction is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
















  • 2




    I made some edits to your question. Do they still represent what you are trying to ask?
    – Rubiksmoose
    2 hours ago










  • @Rubiksmoose looks good
    – CaffeineAddiction
    2 hours ago










  • Also what do you mean by "eg use mage hand to pick pockets in a different city"? Do you mean that the humunculus-familiar attempts to pick pockets with mage hand while being in a different city from the rogue?
    – Rubiksmoose
    2 hours ago










  • From my understanding, the familiar is just a conduit of the spell ... not the caster itself. Could I use this effect to cast mage hand while outside of the normal range presented by the familiar.
    – CaffeineAddiction
    2 hours ago












  • @CaffeineAddiction: Reread the last paragraph of the find familiar spell description: "Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll."
    – V2Blast
    2 hours ago













up vote
2
down vote

favorite
1









up vote
2
down vote

favorite
1






1





If I use find familiar as an Arcane Trickster Rogue, then have a high level wizard cast (concentration) true polymorph on said familiar to turn them into a homunculus, would the familiar still retain the mechanical benefits granted by the spell?



Specifically,




  • Would the Homunculus be telepathically linked to my Rogue? (anywhere on the same plane of existence)?

  • Would the familiar still "deliver a spell with a range of touch" (eg use mage hand to pick pockets in a different city)?










share|improve this question









New contributor




CaffeineAddiction is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











If I use find familiar as an Arcane Trickster Rogue, then have a high level wizard cast (concentration) true polymorph on said familiar to turn them into a homunculus, would the familiar still retain the mechanical benefits granted by the spell?



Specifically,




  • Would the Homunculus be telepathically linked to my Rogue? (anywhere on the same plane of existence)?

  • Would the familiar still "deliver a spell with a range of touch" (eg use mage hand to pick pockets in a different city)?







dnd-5e familiars polymorph






share|improve this question









New contributor




CaffeineAddiction is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









New contributor




CaffeineAddiction is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 2 hours ago









Rubiksmoose

44k6220337




44k6220337






New contributor




CaffeineAddiction is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









asked 2 hours ago









CaffeineAddiction

1134




1134




New contributor




CaffeineAddiction is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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New contributor





CaffeineAddiction is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






CaffeineAddiction is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.








  • 2




    I made some edits to your question. Do they still represent what you are trying to ask?
    – Rubiksmoose
    2 hours ago










  • @Rubiksmoose looks good
    – CaffeineAddiction
    2 hours ago










  • Also what do you mean by "eg use mage hand to pick pockets in a different city"? Do you mean that the humunculus-familiar attempts to pick pockets with mage hand while being in a different city from the rogue?
    – Rubiksmoose
    2 hours ago










  • From my understanding, the familiar is just a conduit of the spell ... not the caster itself. Could I use this effect to cast mage hand while outside of the normal range presented by the familiar.
    – CaffeineAddiction
    2 hours ago












  • @CaffeineAddiction: Reread the last paragraph of the find familiar spell description: "Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll."
    – V2Blast
    2 hours ago














  • 2




    I made some edits to your question. Do they still represent what you are trying to ask?
    – Rubiksmoose
    2 hours ago










  • @Rubiksmoose looks good
    – CaffeineAddiction
    2 hours ago










  • Also what do you mean by "eg use mage hand to pick pockets in a different city"? Do you mean that the humunculus-familiar attempts to pick pockets with mage hand while being in a different city from the rogue?
    – Rubiksmoose
    2 hours ago










  • From my understanding, the familiar is just a conduit of the spell ... not the caster itself. Could I use this effect to cast mage hand while outside of the normal range presented by the familiar.
    – CaffeineAddiction
    2 hours ago












  • @CaffeineAddiction: Reread the last paragraph of the find familiar spell description: "Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll."
    – V2Blast
    2 hours ago








2




2




I made some edits to your question. Do they still represent what you are trying to ask?
– Rubiksmoose
2 hours ago




I made some edits to your question. Do they still represent what you are trying to ask?
– Rubiksmoose
2 hours ago












@Rubiksmoose looks good
– CaffeineAddiction
2 hours ago




@Rubiksmoose looks good
– CaffeineAddiction
2 hours ago












Also what do you mean by "eg use mage hand to pick pockets in a different city"? Do you mean that the humunculus-familiar attempts to pick pockets with mage hand while being in a different city from the rogue?
– Rubiksmoose
2 hours ago




Also what do you mean by "eg use mage hand to pick pockets in a different city"? Do you mean that the humunculus-familiar attempts to pick pockets with mage hand while being in a different city from the rogue?
– Rubiksmoose
2 hours ago












From my understanding, the familiar is just a conduit of the spell ... not the caster itself. Could I use this effect to cast mage hand while outside of the normal range presented by the familiar.
– CaffeineAddiction
2 hours ago






From my understanding, the familiar is just a conduit of the spell ... not the caster itself. Could I use this effect to cast mage hand while outside of the normal range presented by the familiar.
– CaffeineAddiction
2 hours ago














@CaffeineAddiction: Reread the last paragraph of the find familiar spell description: "Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll."
– V2Blast
2 hours ago




@CaffeineAddiction: Reread the last paragraph of the find familiar spell description: "Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll."
– V2Blast
2 hours ago










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
4
down vote



accepted










Familiars retain the benefits of being a familiar even when true polymorphed



Nothing about true polymorph cancels the effects of the find familiar spell. The benefits of find familiar such as telepathy and the ability to deliver touch spells are not statistics of the familiar (they aren't listed in their statblock) and thus aren't replaced by true polymorph.



Remember the general policy for two spells interacting as stated by Jeremy Crawford:




Spell A doesn't cancel spell B unless the text of spell A says it does.




Transforming into a homunculus will give you telepathy while on the same plane



The statblock for the homunculus says:




Telepathic Bond. While the homunculus is on the same plane of existence as its master, it can magically convey what it senses to its master, and the two can communicate telepathically.




While not canceling the effects of find familiar, in this case true polymorph would add to the familiar's abilities because it is changing the underlying creature's natural abilities. This is not changing anything about the find familiar spell's effects though only adding an ability to the familiar itself.



You cannot gain infinite range for casting spells through your familiar



As stated in the first section, nothing about true polymorph cancels the effects of the find familiar spell. Thus, you can still cast spells through your homunculus familiar because find familiar says:




Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it.




Note that the range, 100 feet, has nothing to do with telepathy. It is a separate range listed in a separate part of the spell description. Thus, increasing the range at which you can communicate with the familiar telepathically will do nothing to increase the range at which they can deliver spells. Nothing about true polymorph or the statblock for a humunculus specifically states that they increase the range for familiars to deliver touch spells, so they do not.



Also, note that mage hand is not a touch spell so it cannot be delivered through a familiar regardless. (thanks @v2blast)






share|improve this answer























  • Ok so casting spells through the it would still work ... I would just have to be in the 100 feet range. So still a good pick pocket minion, just not w/ inf range.
    – CaffeineAddiction
    2 hours ago










  • @CaffeineAddiction correct!
    – Rubiksmoose
    2 hours ago






  • 3




    @CaffeineAddiction: Note that mage hand isn't a touch range spell, though, and can't be delivered through your familiar.
    – V2Blast
    2 hours ago










  • @V2Blast good point
    – CaffeineAddiction
    2 hours ago











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1 Answer
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active

oldest

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1 Answer
1






active

oldest

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active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
4
down vote



accepted










Familiars retain the benefits of being a familiar even when true polymorphed



Nothing about true polymorph cancels the effects of the find familiar spell. The benefits of find familiar such as telepathy and the ability to deliver touch spells are not statistics of the familiar (they aren't listed in their statblock) and thus aren't replaced by true polymorph.



Remember the general policy for two spells interacting as stated by Jeremy Crawford:




Spell A doesn't cancel spell B unless the text of spell A says it does.




Transforming into a homunculus will give you telepathy while on the same plane



The statblock for the homunculus says:




Telepathic Bond. While the homunculus is on the same plane of existence as its master, it can magically convey what it senses to its master, and the two can communicate telepathically.




While not canceling the effects of find familiar, in this case true polymorph would add to the familiar's abilities because it is changing the underlying creature's natural abilities. This is not changing anything about the find familiar spell's effects though only adding an ability to the familiar itself.



You cannot gain infinite range for casting spells through your familiar



As stated in the first section, nothing about true polymorph cancels the effects of the find familiar spell. Thus, you can still cast spells through your homunculus familiar because find familiar says:




Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it.




Note that the range, 100 feet, has nothing to do with telepathy. It is a separate range listed in a separate part of the spell description. Thus, increasing the range at which you can communicate with the familiar telepathically will do nothing to increase the range at which they can deliver spells. Nothing about true polymorph or the statblock for a humunculus specifically states that they increase the range for familiars to deliver touch spells, so they do not.



Also, note that mage hand is not a touch spell so it cannot be delivered through a familiar regardless. (thanks @v2blast)






share|improve this answer























  • Ok so casting spells through the it would still work ... I would just have to be in the 100 feet range. So still a good pick pocket minion, just not w/ inf range.
    – CaffeineAddiction
    2 hours ago










  • @CaffeineAddiction correct!
    – Rubiksmoose
    2 hours ago






  • 3




    @CaffeineAddiction: Note that mage hand isn't a touch range spell, though, and can't be delivered through your familiar.
    – V2Blast
    2 hours ago










  • @V2Blast good point
    – CaffeineAddiction
    2 hours ago















up vote
4
down vote



accepted










Familiars retain the benefits of being a familiar even when true polymorphed



Nothing about true polymorph cancels the effects of the find familiar spell. The benefits of find familiar such as telepathy and the ability to deliver touch spells are not statistics of the familiar (they aren't listed in their statblock) and thus aren't replaced by true polymorph.



Remember the general policy for two spells interacting as stated by Jeremy Crawford:




Spell A doesn't cancel spell B unless the text of spell A says it does.




Transforming into a homunculus will give you telepathy while on the same plane



The statblock for the homunculus says:




Telepathic Bond. While the homunculus is on the same plane of existence as its master, it can magically convey what it senses to its master, and the two can communicate telepathically.




While not canceling the effects of find familiar, in this case true polymorph would add to the familiar's abilities because it is changing the underlying creature's natural abilities. This is not changing anything about the find familiar spell's effects though only adding an ability to the familiar itself.



You cannot gain infinite range for casting spells through your familiar



As stated in the first section, nothing about true polymorph cancels the effects of the find familiar spell. Thus, you can still cast spells through your homunculus familiar because find familiar says:




Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it.




Note that the range, 100 feet, has nothing to do with telepathy. It is a separate range listed in a separate part of the spell description. Thus, increasing the range at which you can communicate with the familiar telepathically will do nothing to increase the range at which they can deliver spells. Nothing about true polymorph or the statblock for a humunculus specifically states that they increase the range for familiars to deliver touch spells, so they do not.



Also, note that mage hand is not a touch spell so it cannot be delivered through a familiar regardless. (thanks @v2blast)






share|improve this answer























  • Ok so casting spells through the it would still work ... I would just have to be in the 100 feet range. So still a good pick pocket minion, just not w/ inf range.
    – CaffeineAddiction
    2 hours ago










  • @CaffeineAddiction correct!
    – Rubiksmoose
    2 hours ago






  • 3




    @CaffeineAddiction: Note that mage hand isn't a touch range spell, though, and can't be delivered through your familiar.
    – V2Blast
    2 hours ago










  • @V2Blast good point
    – CaffeineAddiction
    2 hours ago













up vote
4
down vote



accepted







up vote
4
down vote



accepted






Familiars retain the benefits of being a familiar even when true polymorphed



Nothing about true polymorph cancels the effects of the find familiar spell. The benefits of find familiar such as telepathy and the ability to deliver touch spells are not statistics of the familiar (they aren't listed in their statblock) and thus aren't replaced by true polymorph.



Remember the general policy for two spells interacting as stated by Jeremy Crawford:




Spell A doesn't cancel spell B unless the text of spell A says it does.




Transforming into a homunculus will give you telepathy while on the same plane



The statblock for the homunculus says:




Telepathic Bond. While the homunculus is on the same plane of existence as its master, it can magically convey what it senses to its master, and the two can communicate telepathically.




While not canceling the effects of find familiar, in this case true polymorph would add to the familiar's abilities because it is changing the underlying creature's natural abilities. This is not changing anything about the find familiar spell's effects though only adding an ability to the familiar itself.



You cannot gain infinite range for casting spells through your familiar



As stated in the first section, nothing about true polymorph cancels the effects of the find familiar spell. Thus, you can still cast spells through your homunculus familiar because find familiar says:




Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it.




Note that the range, 100 feet, has nothing to do with telepathy. It is a separate range listed in a separate part of the spell description. Thus, increasing the range at which you can communicate with the familiar telepathically will do nothing to increase the range at which they can deliver spells. Nothing about true polymorph or the statblock for a humunculus specifically states that they increase the range for familiars to deliver touch spells, so they do not.



Also, note that mage hand is not a touch spell so it cannot be delivered through a familiar regardless. (thanks @v2blast)






share|improve this answer














Familiars retain the benefits of being a familiar even when true polymorphed



Nothing about true polymorph cancels the effects of the find familiar spell. The benefits of find familiar such as telepathy and the ability to deliver touch spells are not statistics of the familiar (they aren't listed in their statblock) and thus aren't replaced by true polymorph.



Remember the general policy for two spells interacting as stated by Jeremy Crawford:




Spell A doesn't cancel spell B unless the text of spell A says it does.




Transforming into a homunculus will give you telepathy while on the same plane



The statblock for the homunculus says:




Telepathic Bond. While the homunculus is on the same plane of existence as its master, it can magically convey what it senses to its master, and the two can communicate telepathically.




While not canceling the effects of find familiar, in this case true polymorph would add to the familiar's abilities because it is changing the underlying creature's natural abilities. This is not changing anything about the find familiar spell's effects though only adding an ability to the familiar itself.



You cannot gain infinite range for casting spells through your familiar



As stated in the first section, nothing about true polymorph cancels the effects of the find familiar spell. Thus, you can still cast spells through your homunculus familiar because find familiar says:




Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it.




Note that the range, 100 feet, has nothing to do with telepathy. It is a separate range listed in a separate part of the spell description. Thus, increasing the range at which you can communicate with the familiar telepathically will do nothing to increase the range at which they can deliver spells. Nothing about true polymorph or the statblock for a humunculus specifically states that they increase the range for familiars to deliver touch spells, so they do not.



Also, note that mage hand is not a touch spell so it cannot be delivered through a familiar regardless. (thanks @v2blast)







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 1 hour ago

























answered 2 hours ago









Rubiksmoose

44k6220337




44k6220337












  • Ok so casting spells through the it would still work ... I would just have to be in the 100 feet range. So still a good pick pocket minion, just not w/ inf range.
    – CaffeineAddiction
    2 hours ago










  • @CaffeineAddiction correct!
    – Rubiksmoose
    2 hours ago






  • 3




    @CaffeineAddiction: Note that mage hand isn't a touch range spell, though, and can't be delivered through your familiar.
    – V2Blast
    2 hours ago










  • @V2Blast good point
    – CaffeineAddiction
    2 hours ago


















  • Ok so casting spells through the it would still work ... I would just have to be in the 100 feet range. So still a good pick pocket minion, just not w/ inf range.
    – CaffeineAddiction
    2 hours ago










  • @CaffeineAddiction correct!
    – Rubiksmoose
    2 hours ago






  • 3




    @CaffeineAddiction: Note that mage hand isn't a touch range spell, though, and can't be delivered through your familiar.
    – V2Blast
    2 hours ago










  • @V2Blast good point
    – CaffeineAddiction
    2 hours ago
















Ok so casting spells through the it would still work ... I would just have to be in the 100 feet range. So still a good pick pocket minion, just not w/ inf range.
– CaffeineAddiction
2 hours ago




Ok so casting spells through the it would still work ... I would just have to be in the 100 feet range. So still a good pick pocket minion, just not w/ inf range.
– CaffeineAddiction
2 hours ago












@CaffeineAddiction correct!
– Rubiksmoose
2 hours ago




@CaffeineAddiction correct!
– Rubiksmoose
2 hours ago




3




3




@CaffeineAddiction: Note that mage hand isn't a touch range spell, though, and can't be delivered through your familiar.
– V2Blast
2 hours ago




@CaffeineAddiction: Note that mage hand isn't a touch range spell, though, and can't be delivered through your familiar.
– V2Blast
2 hours ago












@V2Blast good point
– CaffeineAddiction
2 hours ago




@V2Blast good point
– CaffeineAddiction
2 hours ago










CaffeineAddiction is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










 

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