How do microstrips actually represent lumped components?











up vote
4
down vote

favorite












I'm having trouble understand intutively how microstrips repersent lumped element components.



All we are told is that, high impedance sections on a microstrip line repersent inductors and low-impedance repersent capacitors. How though? How does this flat piece of conductive material with a dielectric below it actually repersent a capacitor/inductor.










share|improve this question




























    up vote
    4
    down vote

    favorite












    I'm having trouble understand intutively how microstrips repersent lumped element components.



    All we are told is that, high impedance sections on a microstrip line repersent inductors and low-impedance repersent capacitors. How though? How does this flat piece of conductive material with a dielectric below it actually repersent a capacitor/inductor.










    share|improve this question


























      up vote
      4
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      4
      down vote

      favorite











      I'm having trouble understand intutively how microstrips repersent lumped element components.



      All we are told is that, high impedance sections on a microstrip line repersent inductors and low-impedance repersent capacitors. How though? How does this flat piece of conductive material with a dielectric below it actually repersent a capacitor/inductor.










      share|improve this question















      I'm having trouble understand intutively how microstrips repersent lumped element components.



      All we are told is that, high impedance sections on a microstrip line repersent inductors and low-impedance repersent capacitors. How though? How does this flat piece of conductive material with a dielectric below it actually repersent a capacitor/inductor.







      rf






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 2 hours ago









      Seth

      1,542515




      1,542515










      asked 5 hours ago









      AlfroJang80

      47429




      47429






















          4 Answers
          4






          active

          oldest

          votes

















          up vote
          2
          down vote













          How do microstrips actually repersent lumped components?



          It is actually the other way round!



          A microstrip is a distributed component. It has a length and that length has (continous) capacitance and inductance all over its length/width/height



          This is difficult to do calculations on as the number of elements (inducators, capacitors, resistors) is basically infinite.



          To simplify things a lumped components model can be used, which simplifies the infinite number of components to a finite number.






          share|improve this answer




























            up vote
            2
            down vote













            We can picture all transmissions lines as having some inductance and capacitance per unit length.



            If we consider a microstrip line; the lower impedance it is, the wider it will be. This results in greater capacitance because, as you said, there are two pieces of conductor with a dielectric between them which is exactly the structure of a capacitor. So a lower impedance means a larger capacitor area and therefore larger capacitance.



            For higher impedance lines, the capacitance is negligible compared to the inductance so we can model it as a lumped inductor in some circumstances. I don't know off the top of my head what impact the dimensions of microstrip have on the inductance.



            Many microwave texts, such as https://www.amazon.com/Microwave-Engineering-4th-David-Pozar-ebook/dp/B008ACCCHO, will discuss this more formally and actually show the equivalence but I think the intuition is sufficient here.






            share|improve this answer




























              up vote
              2
              down vote













              A microstrip is a form of transmission line in that the conductor has series inductance and there is capacitance to ground. The ratio of inductance to capacitance determine the characteristic impedance. If you terminate a transmission line with a resistor equal to its impedance, the input impedance remains constant and resistive as the length is changes. If the strip is narrow, its inductance will dominate and the input will look inductive. Conversely a broad strip will add more capacitance than inductance.






              share|improve this answer




























                up vote
                2
                down vote













                A micro strip line is the physical implementation of a transmission line. Suppose you have a load and a transmission line.
                transmission line
                The impedance at distance $l$ is
                $$Z(l) = Z_0 frac{1 + Gamma e^{-2gamma l}}{1 - Gamma e^{-2 gamma l}},$$
                where $Gamma$ is the reflection coefficient and $gamma$ is the propagation constant.



                If you assume that the transmission line is lossless and by setting the load to either open or close you get a purely imaginary impedance. Since the impedance of an inductor and a capacitor is
                $$X_mathrm{L} = j omega L,$$
                $$X_mathrm{C} = frac{1}{j omega C},$$
                the transmission line impedance looks like a capacitor or an inductor at some specific frequency. For example
                $$Z(l_0) = j x = j omega_0 L.$$



                It is important to note that this simple implementation of a capacitor or inductor is only valid in the neighborhood of said specific frequency. There are methods to improve the bandwidth, but they are outside the scope of this answer.






                share|improve this answer























                  Your Answer





                  StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
                  return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
                  StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
                  StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["\$", "\$"]]);
                  });
                  });
                  }, "mathjax-editing");

                  StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
                  return StackExchange.using("schematics", function () {
                  StackExchange.schematics.init();
                  });
                  }, "cicuitlab");

                  StackExchange.ready(function() {
                  var channelOptions = {
                  tags: "".split(" "),
                  id: "135"
                  };
                  initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

                  StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
                  // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
                  if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
                  StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
                  createEditor();
                  });
                  }
                  else {
                  createEditor();
                  }
                  });

                  function createEditor() {
                  StackExchange.prepareEditor({
                  heartbeatType: 'answer',
                  convertImagesToLinks: false,
                  noModals: true,
                  showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
                  reputationToPostImages: null,
                  bindNavPrevention: true,
                  postfix: "",
                  imageUploader: {
                  brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
                  contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
                  allowUrls: true
                  },
                  onDemand: true,
                  discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
                  ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
                  });


                  }
                  });














                  draft saved

                  draft discarded


















                  StackExchange.ready(
                  function () {
                  StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2felectronics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f411580%2fhow-do-microstrips-actually-represent-lumped-components%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                  }
                  );

                  Post as a guest















                  Required, but never shown

























                  4 Answers
                  4






                  active

                  oldest

                  votes








                  4 Answers
                  4






                  active

                  oldest

                  votes









                  active

                  oldest

                  votes






                  active

                  oldest

                  votes








                  up vote
                  2
                  down vote













                  How do microstrips actually repersent lumped components?



                  It is actually the other way round!



                  A microstrip is a distributed component. It has a length and that length has (continous) capacitance and inductance all over its length/width/height



                  This is difficult to do calculations on as the number of elements (inducators, capacitors, resistors) is basically infinite.



                  To simplify things a lumped components model can be used, which simplifies the infinite number of components to a finite number.






                  share|improve this answer

























                    up vote
                    2
                    down vote













                    How do microstrips actually repersent lumped components?



                    It is actually the other way round!



                    A microstrip is a distributed component. It has a length and that length has (continous) capacitance and inductance all over its length/width/height



                    This is difficult to do calculations on as the number of elements (inducators, capacitors, resistors) is basically infinite.



                    To simplify things a lumped components model can be used, which simplifies the infinite number of components to a finite number.






                    share|improve this answer























                      up vote
                      2
                      down vote










                      up vote
                      2
                      down vote









                      How do microstrips actually repersent lumped components?



                      It is actually the other way round!



                      A microstrip is a distributed component. It has a length and that length has (continous) capacitance and inductance all over its length/width/height



                      This is difficult to do calculations on as the number of elements (inducators, capacitors, resistors) is basically infinite.



                      To simplify things a lumped components model can be used, which simplifies the infinite number of components to a finite number.






                      share|improve this answer












                      How do microstrips actually repersent lumped components?



                      It is actually the other way round!



                      A microstrip is a distributed component. It has a length and that length has (continous) capacitance and inductance all over its length/width/height



                      This is difficult to do calculations on as the number of elements (inducators, capacitors, resistors) is basically infinite.



                      To simplify things a lumped components model can be used, which simplifies the infinite number of components to a finite number.







                      share|improve this answer












                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer










                      answered 5 hours ago









                      Bimpelrekkie

                      46.4k240103




                      46.4k240103
























                          up vote
                          2
                          down vote













                          We can picture all transmissions lines as having some inductance and capacitance per unit length.



                          If we consider a microstrip line; the lower impedance it is, the wider it will be. This results in greater capacitance because, as you said, there are two pieces of conductor with a dielectric between them which is exactly the structure of a capacitor. So a lower impedance means a larger capacitor area and therefore larger capacitance.



                          For higher impedance lines, the capacitance is negligible compared to the inductance so we can model it as a lumped inductor in some circumstances. I don't know off the top of my head what impact the dimensions of microstrip have on the inductance.



                          Many microwave texts, such as https://www.amazon.com/Microwave-Engineering-4th-David-Pozar-ebook/dp/B008ACCCHO, will discuss this more formally and actually show the equivalence but I think the intuition is sufficient here.






                          share|improve this answer

























                            up vote
                            2
                            down vote













                            We can picture all transmissions lines as having some inductance and capacitance per unit length.



                            If we consider a microstrip line; the lower impedance it is, the wider it will be. This results in greater capacitance because, as you said, there are two pieces of conductor with a dielectric between them which is exactly the structure of a capacitor. So a lower impedance means a larger capacitor area and therefore larger capacitance.



                            For higher impedance lines, the capacitance is negligible compared to the inductance so we can model it as a lumped inductor in some circumstances. I don't know off the top of my head what impact the dimensions of microstrip have on the inductance.



                            Many microwave texts, such as https://www.amazon.com/Microwave-Engineering-4th-David-Pozar-ebook/dp/B008ACCCHO, will discuss this more formally and actually show the equivalence but I think the intuition is sufficient here.






                            share|improve this answer























                              up vote
                              2
                              down vote










                              up vote
                              2
                              down vote









                              We can picture all transmissions lines as having some inductance and capacitance per unit length.



                              If we consider a microstrip line; the lower impedance it is, the wider it will be. This results in greater capacitance because, as you said, there are two pieces of conductor with a dielectric between them which is exactly the structure of a capacitor. So a lower impedance means a larger capacitor area and therefore larger capacitance.



                              For higher impedance lines, the capacitance is negligible compared to the inductance so we can model it as a lumped inductor in some circumstances. I don't know off the top of my head what impact the dimensions of microstrip have on the inductance.



                              Many microwave texts, such as https://www.amazon.com/Microwave-Engineering-4th-David-Pozar-ebook/dp/B008ACCCHO, will discuss this more formally and actually show the equivalence but I think the intuition is sufficient here.






                              share|improve this answer












                              We can picture all transmissions lines as having some inductance and capacitance per unit length.



                              If we consider a microstrip line; the lower impedance it is, the wider it will be. This results in greater capacitance because, as you said, there are two pieces of conductor with a dielectric between them which is exactly the structure of a capacitor. So a lower impedance means a larger capacitor area and therefore larger capacitance.



                              For higher impedance lines, the capacitance is negligible compared to the inductance so we can model it as a lumped inductor in some circumstances. I don't know off the top of my head what impact the dimensions of microstrip have on the inductance.



                              Many microwave texts, such as https://www.amazon.com/Microwave-Engineering-4th-David-Pozar-ebook/dp/B008ACCCHO, will discuss this more formally and actually show the equivalence but I think the intuition is sufficient here.







                              share|improve this answer












                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer










                              answered 5 hours ago









                              jramsay42

                              426126




                              426126






















                                  up vote
                                  2
                                  down vote













                                  A microstrip is a form of transmission line in that the conductor has series inductance and there is capacitance to ground. The ratio of inductance to capacitance determine the characteristic impedance. If you terminate a transmission line with a resistor equal to its impedance, the input impedance remains constant and resistive as the length is changes. If the strip is narrow, its inductance will dominate and the input will look inductive. Conversely a broad strip will add more capacitance than inductance.






                                  share|improve this answer

























                                    up vote
                                    2
                                    down vote













                                    A microstrip is a form of transmission line in that the conductor has series inductance and there is capacitance to ground. The ratio of inductance to capacitance determine the characteristic impedance. If you terminate a transmission line with a resistor equal to its impedance, the input impedance remains constant and resistive as the length is changes. If the strip is narrow, its inductance will dominate and the input will look inductive. Conversely a broad strip will add more capacitance than inductance.






                                    share|improve this answer























                                      up vote
                                      2
                                      down vote










                                      up vote
                                      2
                                      down vote









                                      A microstrip is a form of transmission line in that the conductor has series inductance and there is capacitance to ground. The ratio of inductance to capacitance determine the characteristic impedance. If you terminate a transmission line with a resistor equal to its impedance, the input impedance remains constant and resistive as the length is changes. If the strip is narrow, its inductance will dominate and the input will look inductive. Conversely a broad strip will add more capacitance than inductance.






                                      share|improve this answer












                                      A microstrip is a form of transmission line in that the conductor has series inductance and there is capacitance to ground. The ratio of inductance to capacitance determine the characteristic impedance. If you terminate a transmission line with a resistor equal to its impedance, the input impedance remains constant and resistive as the length is changes. If the strip is narrow, its inductance will dominate and the input will look inductive. Conversely a broad strip will add more capacitance than inductance.







                                      share|improve this answer












                                      share|improve this answer



                                      share|improve this answer










                                      answered 5 hours ago









                                      Steve Hubbard

                                      94717




                                      94717






















                                          up vote
                                          2
                                          down vote













                                          A micro strip line is the physical implementation of a transmission line. Suppose you have a load and a transmission line.
                                          transmission line
                                          The impedance at distance $l$ is
                                          $$Z(l) = Z_0 frac{1 + Gamma e^{-2gamma l}}{1 - Gamma e^{-2 gamma l}},$$
                                          where $Gamma$ is the reflection coefficient and $gamma$ is the propagation constant.



                                          If you assume that the transmission line is lossless and by setting the load to either open or close you get a purely imaginary impedance. Since the impedance of an inductor and a capacitor is
                                          $$X_mathrm{L} = j omega L,$$
                                          $$X_mathrm{C} = frac{1}{j omega C},$$
                                          the transmission line impedance looks like a capacitor or an inductor at some specific frequency. For example
                                          $$Z(l_0) = j x = j omega_0 L.$$



                                          It is important to note that this simple implementation of a capacitor or inductor is only valid in the neighborhood of said specific frequency. There are methods to improve the bandwidth, but they are outside the scope of this answer.






                                          share|improve this answer



























                                            up vote
                                            2
                                            down vote













                                            A micro strip line is the physical implementation of a transmission line. Suppose you have a load and a transmission line.
                                            transmission line
                                            The impedance at distance $l$ is
                                            $$Z(l) = Z_0 frac{1 + Gamma e^{-2gamma l}}{1 - Gamma e^{-2 gamma l}},$$
                                            where $Gamma$ is the reflection coefficient and $gamma$ is the propagation constant.



                                            If you assume that the transmission line is lossless and by setting the load to either open or close you get a purely imaginary impedance. Since the impedance of an inductor and a capacitor is
                                            $$X_mathrm{L} = j omega L,$$
                                            $$X_mathrm{C} = frac{1}{j omega C},$$
                                            the transmission line impedance looks like a capacitor or an inductor at some specific frequency. For example
                                            $$Z(l_0) = j x = j omega_0 L.$$



                                            It is important to note that this simple implementation of a capacitor or inductor is only valid in the neighborhood of said specific frequency. There are methods to improve the bandwidth, but they are outside the scope of this answer.






                                            share|improve this answer

























                                              up vote
                                              2
                                              down vote










                                              up vote
                                              2
                                              down vote









                                              A micro strip line is the physical implementation of a transmission line. Suppose you have a load and a transmission line.
                                              transmission line
                                              The impedance at distance $l$ is
                                              $$Z(l) = Z_0 frac{1 + Gamma e^{-2gamma l}}{1 - Gamma e^{-2 gamma l}},$$
                                              where $Gamma$ is the reflection coefficient and $gamma$ is the propagation constant.



                                              If you assume that the transmission line is lossless and by setting the load to either open or close you get a purely imaginary impedance. Since the impedance of an inductor and a capacitor is
                                              $$X_mathrm{L} = j omega L,$$
                                              $$X_mathrm{C} = frac{1}{j omega C},$$
                                              the transmission line impedance looks like a capacitor or an inductor at some specific frequency. For example
                                              $$Z(l_0) = j x = j omega_0 L.$$



                                              It is important to note that this simple implementation of a capacitor or inductor is only valid in the neighborhood of said specific frequency. There are methods to improve the bandwidth, but they are outside the scope of this answer.






                                              share|improve this answer














                                              A micro strip line is the physical implementation of a transmission line. Suppose you have a load and a transmission line.
                                              transmission line
                                              The impedance at distance $l$ is
                                              $$Z(l) = Z_0 frac{1 + Gamma e^{-2gamma l}}{1 - Gamma e^{-2 gamma l}},$$
                                              where $Gamma$ is the reflection coefficient and $gamma$ is the propagation constant.



                                              If you assume that the transmission line is lossless and by setting the load to either open or close you get a purely imaginary impedance. Since the impedance of an inductor and a capacitor is
                                              $$X_mathrm{L} = j omega L,$$
                                              $$X_mathrm{C} = frac{1}{j omega C},$$
                                              the transmission line impedance looks like a capacitor or an inductor at some specific frequency. For example
                                              $$Z(l_0) = j x = j omega_0 L.$$



                                              It is important to note that this simple implementation of a capacitor or inductor is only valid in the neighborhood of said specific frequency. There are methods to improve the bandwidth, but they are outside the scope of this answer.







                                              share|improve this answer














                                              share|improve this answer



                                              share|improve this answer








                                              edited 5 hours ago

























                                              answered 5 hours ago









                                              user110971

                                              3,1791717




                                              3,1791717






























                                                  draft saved

                                                  draft discarded




















































                                                  Thanks for contributing an answer to Electrical Engineering Stack Exchange!


                                                  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                                                  But avoid



                                                  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                                                  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                                                  Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                                                  To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.





                                                  Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.


                                                  Please pay close attention to the following guidance:


                                                  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                                                  But avoid



                                                  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                                                  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                                                  To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                                                  draft saved


                                                  draft discarded














                                                  StackExchange.ready(
                                                  function () {
                                                  StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2felectronics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f411580%2fhow-do-microstrips-actually-represent-lumped-components%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                                                  }
                                                  );

                                                  Post as a guest















                                                  Required, but never shown





















































                                                  Required, but never shown














                                                  Required, but never shown












                                                  Required, but never shown







                                                  Required, but never shown

































                                                  Required, but never shown














                                                  Required, but never shown












                                                  Required, but never shown







                                                  Required, but never shown







                                                  Popular posts from this blog

                                                  404 Error Contact Form 7 ajax form submitting

                                                  How to know if a Active Directory user can login interactively

                                                  TypeError: fit_transform() missing 1 required positional argument: 'X'