Boy-Girl probability question











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You call to someone's house and asked if they have two children. The answer happens to be yes. Then you ask if one of their children's name a William. The answer happens to be yes again.(We assume William is a boy's name, and that it's possible that both children are Williams) What's the probability that the second child is a boy?










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  • 2




    Potentially a couple of interesting caveats to take care of in this formulation of the problem beyond the run-of-the-mill arithmetic. What are your thoughts? Where are you getting stuck?
    – gt6989b
    4 hours ago






  • 3




    If a couple has two children, what's the probability that both are boys? That exactly one is?
    – Ben W
    4 hours ago






  • 3




    Well, kudos to you for asking this in an unambiguous manner. This is a famous example but most of the time it is asked in an ambiguous manner. (Namely if one (not specified which) what is the prob of "the other" (not specified which).
    – fleablood
    3 hours ago






  • 4




    @ebramos I think your formulation looks good. Except, the probability that someone has two children named William is very small.
    – Doug M
    3 hours ago






  • 1




    Related: math.stackexchange.com/questions/1893041/…
    – Henry
    1 hour ago















up vote
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You call to someone's house and asked if they have two children. The answer happens to be yes. Then you ask if one of their children's name a William. The answer happens to be yes again.(We assume William is a boy's name, and that it's possible that both children are Williams) What's the probability that the second child is a boy?










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  • 2




    Potentially a couple of interesting caveats to take care of in this formulation of the problem beyond the run-of-the-mill arithmetic. What are your thoughts? Where are you getting stuck?
    – gt6989b
    4 hours ago






  • 3




    If a couple has two children, what's the probability that both are boys? That exactly one is?
    – Ben W
    4 hours ago






  • 3




    Well, kudos to you for asking this in an unambiguous manner. This is a famous example but most of the time it is asked in an ambiguous manner. (Namely if one (not specified which) what is the prob of "the other" (not specified which).
    – fleablood
    3 hours ago






  • 4




    @ebramos I think your formulation looks good. Except, the probability that someone has two children named William is very small.
    – Doug M
    3 hours ago






  • 1




    Related: math.stackexchange.com/questions/1893041/…
    – Henry
    1 hour ago













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You call to someone's house and asked if they have two children. The answer happens to be yes. Then you ask if one of their children's name a William. The answer happens to be yes again.(We assume William is a boy's name, and that it's possible that both children are Williams) What's the probability that the second child is a boy?










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You call to someone's house and asked if they have two children. The answer happens to be yes. Then you ask if one of their children's name a William. The answer happens to be yes again.(We assume William is a boy's name, and that it's possible that both children are Williams) What's the probability that the second child is a boy?







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edited 3 hours ago









Jam

4,84611431




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  • 2




    Potentially a couple of interesting caveats to take care of in this formulation of the problem beyond the run-of-the-mill arithmetic. What are your thoughts? Where are you getting stuck?
    – gt6989b
    4 hours ago






  • 3




    If a couple has two children, what's the probability that both are boys? That exactly one is?
    – Ben W
    4 hours ago






  • 3




    Well, kudos to you for asking this in an unambiguous manner. This is a famous example but most of the time it is asked in an ambiguous manner. (Namely if one (not specified which) what is the prob of "the other" (not specified which).
    – fleablood
    3 hours ago






  • 4




    @ebramos I think your formulation looks good. Except, the probability that someone has two children named William is very small.
    – Doug M
    3 hours ago






  • 1




    Related: math.stackexchange.com/questions/1893041/…
    – Henry
    1 hour ago














  • 2




    Potentially a couple of interesting caveats to take care of in this formulation of the problem beyond the run-of-the-mill arithmetic. What are your thoughts? Where are you getting stuck?
    – gt6989b
    4 hours ago






  • 3




    If a couple has two children, what's the probability that both are boys? That exactly one is?
    – Ben W
    4 hours ago






  • 3




    Well, kudos to you for asking this in an unambiguous manner. This is a famous example but most of the time it is asked in an ambiguous manner. (Namely if one (not specified which) what is the prob of "the other" (not specified which).
    – fleablood
    3 hours ago






  • 4




    @ebramos I think your formulation looks good. Except, the probability that someone has two children named William is very small.
    – Doug M
    3 hours ago






  • 1




    Related: math.stackexchange.com/questions/1893041/…
    – Henry
    1 hour ago








2




2




Potentially a couple of interesting caveats to take care of in this formulation of the problem beyond the run-of-the-mill arithmetic. What are your thoughts? Where are you getting stuck?
– gt6989b
4 hours ago




Potentially a couple of interesting caveats to take care of in this formulation of the problem beyond the run-of-the-mill arithmetic. What are your thoughts? Where are you getting stuck?
– gt6989b
4 hours ago




3




3




If a couple has two children, what's the probability that both are boys? That exactly one is?
– Ben W
4 hours ago




If a couple has two children, what's the probability that both are boys? That exactly one is?
– Ben W
4 hours ago




3




3




Well, kudos to you for asking this in an unambiguous manner. This is a famous example but most of the time it is asked in an ambiguous manner. (Namely if one (not specified which) what is the prob of "the other" (not specified which).
– fleablood
3 hours ago




Well, kudos to you for asking this in an unambiguous manner. This is a famous example but most of the time it is asked in an ambiguous manner. (Namely if one (not specified which) what is the prob of "the other" (not specified which).
– fleablood
3 hours ago




4




4




@ebramos I think your formulation looks good. Except, the probability that someone has two children named William is very small.
– Doug M
3 hours ago




@ebramos I think your formulation looks good. Except, the probability that someone has two children named William is very small.
– Doug M
3 hours ago




1




1




Related: math.stackexchange.com/questions/1893041/…
– Henry
1 hour ago




Related: math.stackexchange.com/questions/1893041/…
– Henry
1 hour ago










4 Answers
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The probability is $dfrac{1-p}{2-p}$, where $p<0.5$ is the probability that a child’s name is William. Represent the sample space of one child’s gender and name by $I$, a unit interval where numbers from $0$ to $0.5$ represent girls and numbers from $0.5$ to $1$ represent boys. Assume that like names are contiguous within the gender range, so there is a subinterval of width $p$ within $[0.5,1]$ that represents Williams.



enter image description here



The two children correspond to some point $(x,y)$ in $Itimes I$. Knowing nothing other than that the family has (exactly) two children puts no restriction on $(x,y)$. However, if you know one child is a William, you must be in the colored cross-shaped region shown in the picture. Within that region, the red area represents one-boy-and-one-girl families, and the blue area represents two-boy families.



The probability that you are in the blue region, given that you are in the cross-shaped region, is the quotient of areas blue/cross, or $dfrac{p-p^2}{2p-p^2}$.






share|cite|improve this answer























  • Thanks. To be fair, I based it from an answer I gave a couple of years ago to a variation on the same question: math.stackexchange.com/questions/1582465/…
    – Steve Kass
    1 hour ago










  • It's a shame p can't really be accurately estimated.
    – insidesin
    1 hour ago






  • 1




    Well, estimating $p$ would be a great open-ended data science question! Good guesses for $p$ probably depend on when and where the encounter occurred, among other things. But in the real world, the probability that one family has two boys both named William is almost certainly not $p^2$, so this question is not very realistic.
    – Steve Kass
    1 hour ago










  • It actually doesn't matter if you allow two Williams in the same family or not. Either way the probability of a family with two children having at least one William is the same and that leads to the same answer. (Suppose a law is brought in forbidding children with the same name and each family with two Williams changes the name of one of them. Every family which had at least one William still does and would answer the the two questions as before, so the probability of a second boy doesn't change.)
    – David Hartley
    1 min ago


















up vote
2
down vote













For sake of argument suppose $1$ in $m$ boys (but no girls) are named william. And for sake of argument in every family has two children and one of the children is soaked in skunk urine to tell it apart for the other.



$frac 12*frac 12$ of all families have two girls. None of them named william.



$frac 12*frac 12=frac 14$ of all families has one girl soaked in skunk urine and a clean boy.



So these families $frac 1m$ of them have the boy named william.



So $frac 1{4m}$ have a skunk urine girl and a boy named william and the other a girl.



$frac 12*frac 12=frac 14$ of all families has one girl clean and one boy soaked in skunk urine. Of these $frac 1{m}$ have a boy named william.



So $frac 1{4m}$ has skunk urine boy named william and the other a girl.



$frac 12*frac 12 = frac 14$ of all families have two boys.



$frac 1{m^2}$ or $frac 1{4m^2}$ of all families, of these both are named william.



$frac 1{m}frac {m-1}m$ or $frac {m-1}{4m^2}$ of all, of these the skunk urine one is called william and the other isn't.



$frac {m-1}mfrac 1{m}$ or $frac {m-1}{4m^2}$ of all, of the the clean boy is called william that the other isn't.



So $frac 1{4m^2} + frac {m-1}{4m^2} + frac {m-1}{4m^2}= frac {2m-1}{4m^2}$ of all families has a child name william and the other a boy.



And $frac 1{4m}+frac 1{4m}=frac 1{2m} = frac {2m}{4m^2}$ of all families have a child named william and the other a girl.



And there are $frac 1{4m^2} + frac {m-1}{4m^2} + frac {m-1}{4m^2}+frac 1{4m}+frac 1{4m} = frac {4m -1}{4m^2}$ of all families has a child named william.



So the probability of a family with two children, one william, having two boys is



$frac {frac {2m-1}{4m^2}}{frac {4m-1}{4m^2}} = frac {2m-1}{4m-1}approx frac 12$ (depending on how rare william is as a name)



and the probability of having a boy and a girl is $frac {2m}{4m-1}approx frac 12$.



....



There is a well known paradox that if a family with two children have at least one boy what is the probability that "the other" is a boy, or in other words what is the probability that they have two boys.



The answer is $frac 13$. This is because of the four possible outcomes, BB, BG, GB, GG, the GG is thrown away. SO of the three equally likely outcomes only one is $BB$.



But this question is worded differently. we are told specifically that a certain one of them is a boy, not just any of them.



(Let's assume they aren't both named william).



So of the four possibilities: William is a Boy: Boy, William is Boy: Girl, William is a girl:Boy, William is girl; Girl. Now 2 of them are thrown away and only William is a Boy: Boy, William is Boy: Girl are left. So the probability is now $frac 12$.






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    up vote
    0
    down vote













    These questions are actually a lot of fun. Thank you for posting this!



    The essence of this question is really this:




    You call households that have exactly two children. You ask whether one child is a boy. What is the probability that the second child is a boy.




    Let A be the event that both children are girls, B the event that the first-born is a boy, the second-born a girl, C the event that the first-born is a girl the second-born a boy. and D the event that both children are boys. Then Events A,B,C,D are mutually disjoint and each occur with probability $frac{1}{4}$.



    Let us assume that, instead of asking if one child is a boy, you ask if the first-born is a boy. They will say yes if either Events B or D occured. Then the probability that the second-born is a boy, given that the first-born is a boy (i.e., it was Event D that occurred given that one of D or B occurred), is 1/2.



    But you are actually calling and asking if one child is a boy, and they will say yes if Events B,C, or D occurred. The only households that will say no are those for which event A occurred. So the probability that the other child is a girl, given
    that one child is a boy, is the probability of either Event B or Event C happening given that one of Events B,C,D happened. So the probability that the other child is a girl is 2/3.






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      The crux of this problem is that the probability changes whether we find out that one of the children is William before or after we draw the family. See this paper for details. Assume that both sexes are equiprobable and that the probability of a child being a William is $p$. Denote Williams by $BW$ and male non-Williams by $B'$.



      $$begin{array}{|c|c|c|}
      hline
      text{Child 1} & text{Child 2}&text{Prob.}\
      hline
      BW&BW &p^2\
      hline
      BW&B'&pleft(frac12-pright)\
      hline
      BW&G&frac12p\
      hline
      B'&BW&pleft(frac12-pright)\
      hline
      B'&B'&left(frac12-pright)^2\
      hline
      B'&G&frac12left(frac12-pright)\
      hline
      G&BW&frac12p\
      hline
      G&B'&frac12left(frac12-pright)\
      hline
      G&G&frac14\
      hline
      end{array}\
      $$



      In this space, the probability of child $2$ being a boy after we've found out that child $1$ is a William is $P(B|W)=frac{P(Bland W)}{P(W)}=frac1pfrac{p^2+pleft(frac12-pright)}{p^2+2p(1/2-p)+p+(1/2-p)^2+(1/2-p)+(1/2)^2}=frac12$.



      However, if we knew that the family had a William (not that child $1$ was a William), we would have the following space.



      begin{array}{|c|c|}
      hline
      text{Child 1} & text{Child 2} &text{Prob.}\
      hline
      BW&BW&p^2\
      hline
      BW&B'&left(frac12-pright)p\
      hline
      BW&G&frac12p\
      hline
      B'&BW&left(frac12-pright)p\
      hline
      G&BW&frac12p\
      hline
      end{array}



      So then the probability of the other child being a boy becomes $frac{p^2+left(frac12-pright)p+left(frac12-pright)p}{p^2+left(frac12-pright)p+frac12p+left(frac12-pright)p+frac12p}=frac{1-p}{2-p}$, which agrees with @Steve_Kass's answer. This is a variant of the well known paradox whose solution depends on the exact phrasing of the problem. In essence, the prior knowledge of changes the system.






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      • But you are only taking cases of families with two children with one named william. Families with a boy named william and a sister are twice as common as families with a boy names william and a brother. (think about it). So the probability is 1/3.
        – fleablood
        3 hours ago










      • Argh. I'm mistaken.
        – fleablood
        3 hours ago










      • @fleablood So was I, to be fair.
        – Jam
        3 hours ago











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      4 Answers
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      The probability is $dfrac{1-p}{2-p}$, where $p<0.5$ is the probability that a child’s name is William. Represent the sample space of one child’s gender and name by $I$, a unit interval where numbers from $0$ to $0.5$ represent girls and numbers from $0.5$ to $1$ represent boys. Assume that like names are contiguous within the gender range, so there is a subinterval of width $p$ within $[0.5,1]$ that represents Williams.



      enter image description here



      The two children correspond to some point $(x,y)$ in $Itimes I$. Knowing nothing other than that the family has (exactly) two children puts no restriction on $(x,y)$. However, if you know one child is a William, you must be in the colored cross-shaped region shown in the picture. Within that region, the red area represents one-boy-and-one-girl families, and the blue area represents two-boy families.



      The probability that you are in the blue region, given that you are in the cross-shaped region, is the quotient of areas blue/cross, or $dfrac{p-p^2}{2p-p^2}$.






      share|cite|improve this answer























      • Thanks. To be fair, I based it from an answer I gave a couple of years ago to a variation on the same question: math.stackexchange.com/questions/1582465/…
        – Steve Kass
        1 hour ago










      • It's a shame p can't really be accurately estimated.
        – insidesin
        1 hour ago






      • 1




        Well, estimating $p$ would be a great open-ended data science question! Good guesses for $p$ probably depend on when and where the encounter occurred, among other things. But in the real world, the probability that one family has two boys both named William is almost certainly not $p^2$, so this question is not very realistic.
        – Steve Kass
        1 hour ago










      • It actually doesn't matter if you allow two Williams in the same family or not. Either way the probability of a family with two children having at least one William is the same and that leads to the same answer. (Suppose a law is brought in forbidding children with the same name and each family with two Williams changes the name of one of them. Every family which had at least one William still does and would answer the the two questions as before, so the probability of a second boy doesn't change.)
        – David Hartley
        1 min ago















      up vote
      4
      down vote













      The probability is $dfrac{1-p}{2-p}$, where $p<0.5$ is the probability that a child’s name is William. Represent the sample space of one child’s gender and name by $I$, a unit interval where numbers from $0$ to $0.5$ represent girls and numbers from $0.5$ to $1$ represent boys. Assume that like names are contiguous within the gender range, so there is a subinterval of width $p$ within $[0.5,1]$ that represents Williams.



      enter image description here



      The two children correspond to some point $(x,y)$ in $Itimes I$. Knowing nothing other than that the family has (exactly) two children puts no restriction on $(x,y)$. However, if you know one child is a William, you must be in the colored cross-shaped region shown in the picture. Within that region, the red area represents one-boy-and-one-girl families, and the blue area represents two-boy families.



      The probability that you are in the blue region, given that you are in the cross-shaped region, is the quotient of areas blue/cross, or $dfrac{p-p^2}{2p-p^2}$.






      share|cite|improve this answer























      • Thanks. To be fair, I based it from an answer I gave a couple of years ago to a variation on the same question: math.stackexchange.com/questions/1582465/…
        – Steve Kass
        1 hour ago










      • It's a shame p can't really be accurately estimated.
        – insidesin
        1 hour ago






      • 1




        Well, estimating $p$ would be a great open-ended data science question! Good guesses for $p$ probably depend on when and where the encounter occurred, among other things. But in the real world, the probability that one family has two boys both named William is almost certainly not $p^2$, so this question is not very realistic.
        – Steve Kass
        1 hour ago










      • It actually doesn't matter if you allow two Williams in the same family or not. Either way the probability of a family with two children having at least one William is the same and that leads to the same answer. (Suppose a law is brought in forbidding children with the same name and each family with two Williams changes the name of one of them. Every family which had at least one William still does and would answer the the two questions as before, so the probability of a second boy doesn't change.)
        – David Hartley
        1 min ago













      up vote
      4
      down vote










      up vote
      4
      down vote









      The probability is $dfrac{1-p}{2-p}$, where $p<0.5$ is the probability that a child’s name is William. Represent the sample space of one child’s gender and name by $I$, a unit interval where numbers from $0$ to $0.5$ represent girls and numbers from $0.5$ to $1$ represent boys. Assume that like names are contiguous within the gender range, so there is a subinterval of width $p$ within $[0.5,1]$ that represents Williams.



      enter image description here



      The two children correspond to some point $(x,y)$ in $Itimes I$. Knowing nothing other than that the family has (exactly) two children puts no restriction on $(x,y)$. However, if you know one child is a William, you must be in the colored cross-shaped region shown in the picture. Within that region, the red area represents one-boy-and-one-girl families, and the blue area represents two-boy families.



      The probability that you are in the blue region, given that you are in the cross-shaped region, is the quotient of areas blue/cross, or $dfrac{p-p^2}{2p-p^2}$.






      share|cite|improve this answer














      The probability is $dfrac{1-p}{2-p}$, where $p<0.5$ is the probability that a child’s name is William. Represent the sample space of one child’s gender and name by $I$, a unit interval where numbers from $0$ to $0.5$ represent girls and numbers from $0.5$ to $1$ represent boys. Assume that like names are contiguous within the gender range, so there is a subinterval of width $p$ within $[0.5,1]$ that represents Williams.



      enter image description here



      The two children correspond to some point $(x,y)$ in $Itimes I$. Knowing nothing other than that the family has (exactly) two children puts no restriction on $(x,y)$. However, if you know one child is a William, you must be in the colored cross-shaped region shown in the picture. Within that region, the red area represents one-boy-and-one-girl families, and the blue area represents two-boy families.



      The probability that you are in the blue region, given that you are in the cross-shaped region, is the quotient of areas blue/cross, or $dfrac{p-p^2}{2p-p^2}$.







      share|cite|improve this answer














      share|cite|improve this answer



      share|cite|improve this answer








      edited 2 hours ago

























      answered 2 hours ago









      Steve Kass

      11k11429




      11k11429












      • Thanks. To be fair, I based it from an answer I gave a couple of years ago to a variation on the same question: math.stackexchange.com/questions/1582465/…
        – Steve Kass
        1 hour ago










      • It's a shame p can't really be accurately estimated.
        – insidesin
        1 hour ago






      • 1




        Well, estimating $p$ would be a great open-ended data science question! Good guesses for $p$ probably depend on when and where the encounter occurred, among other things. But in the real world, the probability that one family has two boys both named William is almost certainly not $p^2$, so this question is not very realistic.
        – Steve Kass
        1 hour ago










      • It actually doesn't matter if you allow two Williams in the same family or not. Either way the probability of a family with two children having at least one William is the same and that leads to the same answer. (Suppose a law is brought in forbidding children with the same name and each family with two Williams changes the name of one of them. Every family which had at least one William still does and would answer the the two questions as before, so the probability of a second boy doesn't change.)
        – David Hartley
        1 min ago


















      • Thanks. To be fair, I based it from an answer I gave a couple of years ago to a variation on the same question: math.stackexchange.com/questions/1582465/…
        – Steve Kass
        1 hour ago










      • It's a shame p can't really be accurately estimated.
        – insidesin
        1 hour ago






      • 1




        Well, estimating $p$ would be a great open-ended data science question! Good guesses for $p$ probably depend on when and where the encounter occurred, among other things. But in the real world, the probability that one family has two boys both named William is almost certainly not $p^2$, so this question is not very realistic.
        – Steve Kass
        1 hour ago










      • It actually doesn't matter if you allow two Williams in the same family or not. Either way the probability of a family with two children having at least one William is the same and that leads to the same answer. (Suppose a law is brought in forbidding children with the same name and each family with two Williams changes the name of one of them. Every family which had at least one William still does and would answer the the two questions as before, so the probability of a second boy doesn't change.)
        – David Hartley
        1 min ago
















      Thanks. To be fair, I based it from an answer I gave a couple of years ago to a variation on the same question: math.stackexchange.com/questions/1582465/…
      – Steve Kass
      1 hour ago




      Thanks. To be fair, I based it from an answer I gave a couple of years ago to a variation on the same question: math.stackexchange.com/questions/1582465/…
      – Steve Kass
      1 hour ago












      It's a shame p can't really be accurately estimated.
      – insidesin
      1 hour ago




      It's a shame p can't really be accurately estimated.
      – insidesin
      1 hour ago




      1




      1




      Well, estimating $p$ would be a great open-ended data science question! Good guesses for $p$ probably depend on when and where the encounter occurred, among other things. But in the real world, the probability that one family has two boys both named William is almost certainly not $p^2$, so this question is not very realistic.
      – Steve Kass
      1 hour ago




      Well, estimating $p$ would be a great open-ended data science question! Good guesses for $p$ probably depend on when and where the encounter occurred, among other things. But in the real world, the probability that one family has two boys both named William is almost certainly not $p^2$, so this question is not very realistic.
      – Steve Kass
      1 hour ago












      It actually doesn't matter if you allow two Williams in the same family or not. Either way the probability of a family with two children having at least one William is the same and that leads to the same answer. (Suppose a law is brought in forbidding children with the same name and each family with two Williams changes the name of one of them. Every family which had at least one William still does and would answer the the two questions as before, so the probability of a second boy doesn't change.)
      – David Hartley
      1 min ago




      It actually doesn't matter if you allow two Williams in the same family or not. Either way the probability of a family with two children having at least one William is the same and that leads to the same answer. (Suppose a law is brought in forbidding children with the same name and each family with two Williams changes the name of one of them. Every family which had at least one William still does and would answer the the two questions as before, so the probability of a second boy doesn't change.)
      – David Hartley
      1 min ago










      up vote
      2
      down vote













      For sake of argument suppose $1$ in $m$ boys (but no girls) are named william. And for sake of argument in every family has two children and one of the children is soaked in skunk urine to tell it apart for the other.



      $frac 12*frac 12$ of all families have two girls. None of them named william.



      $frac 12*frac 12=frac 14$ of all families has one girl soaked in skunk urine and a clean boy.



      So these families $frac 1m$ of them have the boy named william.



      So $frac 1{4m}$ have a skunk urine girl and a boy named william and the other a girl.



      $frac 12*frac 12=frac 14$ of all families has one girl clean and one boy soaked in skunk urine. Of these $frac 1{m}$ have a boy named william.



      So $frac 1{4m}$ has skunk urine boy named william and the other a girl.



      $frac 12*frac 12 = frac 14$ of all families have two boys.



      $frac 1{m^2}$ or $frac 1{4m^2}$ of all families, of these both are named william.



      $frac 1{m}frac {m-1}m$ or $frac {m-1}{4m^2}$ of all, of these the skunk urine one is called william and the other isn't.



      $frac {m-1}mfrac 1{m}$ or $frac {m-1}{4m^2}$ of all, of the the clean boy is called william that the other isn't.



      So $frac 1{4m^2} + frac {m-1}{4m^2} + frac {m-1}{4m^2}= frac {2m-1}{4m^2}$ of all families has a child name william and the other a boy.



      And $frac 1{4m}+frac 1{4m}=frac 1{2m} = frac {2m}{4m^2}$ of all families have a child named william and the other a girl.



      And there are $frac 1{4m^2} + frac {m-1}{4m^2} + frac {m-1}{4m^2}+frac 1{4m}+frac 1{4m} = frac {4m -1}{4m^2}$ of all families has a child named william.



      So the probability of a family with two children, one william, having two boys is



      $frac {frac {2m-1}{4m^2}}{frac {4m-1}{4m^2}} = frac {2m-1}{4m-1}approx frac 12$ (depending on how rare william is as a name)



      and the probability of having a boy and a girl is $frac {2m}{4m-1}approx frac 12$.



      ....



      There is a well known paradox that if a family with two children have at least one boy what is the probability that "the other" is a boy, or in other words what is the probability that they have two boys.



      The answer is $frac 13$. This is because of the four possible outcomes, BB, BG, GB, GG, the GG is thrown away. SO of the three equally likely outcomes only one is $BB$.



      But this question is worded differently. we are told specifically that a certain one of them is a boy, not just any of them.



      (Let's assume they aren't both named william).



      So of the four possibilities: William is a Boy: Boy, William is Boy: Girl, William is a girl:Boy, William is girl; Girl. Now 2 of them are thrown away and only William is a Boy: Boy, William is Boy: Girl are left. So the probability is now $frac 12$.






      share|cite|improve this answer

























        up vote
        2
        down vote













        For sake of argument suppose $1$ in $m$ boys (but no girls) are named william. And for sake of argument in every family has two children and one of the children is soaked in skunk urine to tell it apart for the other.



        $frac 12*frac 12$ of all families have two girls. None of them named william.



        $frac 12*frac 12=frac 14$ of all families has one girl soaked in skunk urine and a clean boy.



        So these families $frac 1m$ of them have the boy named william.



        So $frac 1{4m}$ have a skunk urine girl and a boy named william and the other a girl.



        $frac 12*frac 12=frac 14$ of all families has one girl clean and one boy soaked in skunk urine. Of these $frac 1{m}$ have a boy named william.



        So $frac 1{4m}$ has skunk urine boy named william and the other a girl.



        $frac 12*frac 12 = frac 14$ of all families have two boys.



        $frac 1{m^2}$ or $frac 1{4m^2}$ of all families, of these both are named william.



        $frac 1{m}frac {m-1}m$ or $frac {m-1}{4m^2}$ of all, of these the skunk urine one is called william and the other isn't.



        $frac {m-1}mfrac 1{m}$ or $frac {m-1}{4m^2}$ of all, of the the clean boy is called william that the other isn't.



        So $frac 1{4m^2} + frac {m-1}{4m^2} + frac {m-1}{4m^2}= frac {2m-1}{4m^2}$ of all families has a child name william and the other a boy.



        And $frac 1{4m}+frac 1{4m}=frac 1{2m} = frac {2m}{4m^2}$ of all families have a child named william and the other a girl.



        And there are $frac 1{4m^2} + frac {m-1}{4m^2} + frac {m-1}{4m^2}+frac 1{4m}+frac 1{4m} = frac {4m -1}{4m^2}$ of all families has a child named william.



        So the probability of a family with two children, one william, having two boys is



        $frac {frac {2m-1}{4m^2}}{frac {4m-1}{4m^2}} = frac {2m-1}{4m-1}approx frac 12$ (depending on how rare william is as a name)



        and the probability of having a boy and a girl is $frac {2m}{4m-1}approx frac 12$.



        ....



        There is a well known paradox that if a family with two children have at least one boy what is the probability that "the other" is a boy, or in other words what is the probability that they have two boys.



        The answer is $frac 13$. This is because of the four possible outcomes, BB, BG, GB, GG, the GG is thrown away. SO of the three equally likely outcomes only one is $BB$.



        But this question is worded differently. we are told specifically that a certain one of them is a boy, not just any of them.



        (Let's assume they aren't both named william).



        So of the four possibilities: William is a Boy: Boy, William is Boy: Girl, William is a girl:Boy, William is girl; Girl. Now 2 of them are thrown away and only William is a Boy: Boy, William is Boy: Girl are left. So the probability is now $frac 12$.






        share|cite|improve this answer























          up vote
          2
          down vote










          up vote
          2
          down vote









          For sake of argument suppose $1$ in $m$ boys (but no girls) are named william. And for sake of argument in every family has two children and one of the children is soaked in skunk urine to tell it apart for the other.



          $frac 12*frac 12$ of all families have two girls. None of them named william.



          $frac 12*frac 12=frac 14$ of all families has one girl soaked in skunk urine and a clean boy.



          So these families $frac 1m$ of them have the boy named william.



          So $frac 1{4m}$ have a skunk urine girl and a boy named william and the other a girl.



          $frac 12*frac 12=frac 14$ of all families has one girl clean and one boy soaked in skunk urine. Of these $frac 1{m}$ have a boy named william.



          So $frac 1{4m}$ has skunk urine boy named william and the other a girl.



          $frac 12*frac 12 = frac 14$ of all families have two boys.



          $frac 1{m^2}$ or $frac 1{4m^2}$ of all families, of these both are named william.



          $frac 1{m}frac {m-1}m$ or $frac {m-1}{4m^2}$ of all, of these the skunk urine one is called william and the other isn't.



          $frac {m-1}mfrac 1{m}$ or $frac {m-1}{4m^2}$ of all, of the the clean boy is called william that the other isn't.



          So $frac 1{4m^2} + frac {m-1}{4m^2} + frac {m-1}{4m^2}= frac {2m-1}{4m^2}$ of all families has a child name william and the other a boy.



          And $frac 1{4m}+frac 1{4m}=frac 1{2m} = frac {2m}{4m^2}$ of all families have a child named william and the other a girl.



          And there are $frac 1{4m^2} + frac {m-1}{4m^2} + frac {m-1}{4m^2}+frac 1{4m}+frac 1{4m} = frac {4m -1}{4m^2}$ of all families has a child named william.



          So the probability of a family with two children, one william, having two boys is



          $frac {frac {2m-1}{4m^2}}{frac {4m-1}{4m^2}} = frac {2m-1}{4m-1}approx frac 12$ (depending on how rare william is as a name)



          and the probability of having a boy and a girl is $frac {2m}{4m-1}approx frac 12$.



          ....



          There is a well known paradox that if a family with two children have at least one boy what is the probability that "the other" is a boy, or in other words what is the probability that they have two boys.



          The answer is $frac 13$. This is because of the four possible outcomes, BB, BG, GB, GG, the GG is thrown away. SO of the three equally likely outcomes only one is $BB$.



          But this question is worded differently. we are told specifically that a certain one of them is a boy, not just any of them.



          (Let's assume they aren't both named william).



          So of the four possibilities: William is a Boy: Boy, William is Boy: Girl, William is a girl:Boy, William is girl; Girl. Now 2 of them are thrown away and only William is a Boy: Boy, William is Boy: Girl are left. So the probability is now $frac 12$.






          share|cite|improve this answer












          For sake of argument suppose $1$ in $m$ boys (but no girls) are named william. And for sake of argument in every family has two children and one of the children is soaked in skunk urine to tell it apart for the other.



          $frac 12*frac 12$ of all families have two girls. None of them named william.



          $frac 12*frac 12=frac 14$ of all families has one girl soaked in skunk urine and a clean boy.



          So these families $frac 1m$ of them have the boy named william.



          So $frac 1{4m}$ have a skunk urine girl and a boy named william and the other a girl.



          $frac 12*frac 12=frac 14$ of all families has one girl clean and one boy soaked in skunk urine. Of these $frac 1{m}$ have a boy named william.



          So $frac 1{4m}$ has skunk urine boy named william and the other a girl.



          $frac 12*frac 12 = frac 14$ of all families have two boys.



          $frac 1{m^2}$ or $frac 1{4m^2}$ of all families, of these both are named william.



          $frac 1{m}frac {m-1}m$ or $frac {m-1}{4m^2}$ of all, of these the skunk urine one is called william and the other isn't.



          $frac {m-1}mfrac 1{m}$ or $frac {m-1}{4m^2}$ of all, of the the clean boy is called william that the other isn't.



          So $frac 1{4m^2} + frac {m-1}{4m^2} + frac {m-1}{4m^2}= frac {2m-1}{4m^2}$ of all families has a child name william and the other a boy.



          And $frac 1{4m}+frac 1{4m}=frac 1{2m} = frac {2m}{4m^2}$ of all families have a child named william and the other a girl.



          And there are $frac 1{4m^2} + frac {m-1}{4m^2} + frac {m-1}{4m^2}+frac 1{4m}+frac 1{4m} = frac {4m -1}{4m^2}$ of all families has a child named william.



          So the probability of a family with two children, one william, having two boys is



          $frac {frac {2m-1}{4m^2}}{frac {4m-1}{4m^2}} = frac {2m-1}{4m-1}approx frac 12$ (depending on how rare william is as a name)



          and the probability of having a boy and a girl is $frac {2m}{4m-1}approx frac 12$.



          ....



          There is a well known paradox that if a family with two children have at least one boy what is the probability that "the other" is a boy, or in other words what is the probability that they have two boys.



          The answer is $frac 13$. This is because of the four possible outcomes, BB, BG, GB, GG, the GG is thrown away. SO of the three equally likely outcomes only one is $BB$.



          But this question is worded differently. we are told specifically that a certain one of them is a boy, not just any of them.



          (Let's assume they aren't both named william).



          So of the four possibilities: William is a Boy: Boy, William is Boy: Girl, William is a girl:Boy, William is girl; Girl. Now 2 of them are thrown away and only William is a Boy: Boy, William is Boy: Girl are left. So the probability is now $frac 12$.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered 2 hours ago









          fleablood

          67.2k22684




          67.2k22684






















              up vote
              0
              down vote













              These questions are actually a lot of fun. Thank you for posting this!



              The essence of this question is really this:




              You call households that have exactly two children. You ask whether one child is a boy. What is the probability that the second child is a boy.




              Let A be the event that both children are girls, B the event that the first-born is a boy, the second-born a girl, C the event that the first-born is a girl the second-born a boy. and D the event that both children are boys. Then Events A,B,C,D are mutually disjoint and each occur with probability $frac{1}{4}$.



              Let us assume that, instead of asking if one child is a boy, you ask if the first-born is a boy. They will say yes if either Events B or D occured. Then the probability that the second-born is a boy, given that the first-born is a boy (i.e., it was Event D that occurred given that one of D or B occurred), is 1/2.



              But you are actually calling and asking if one child is a boy, and they will say yes if Events B,C, or D occurred. The only households that will say no are those for which event A occurred. So the probability that the other child is a girl, given
              that one child is a boy, is the probability of either Event B or Event C happening given that one of Events B,C,D happened. So the probability that the other child is a girl is 2/3.






              share|cite|improve this answer



























                up vote
                0
                down vote













                These questions are actually a lot of fun. Thank you for posting this!



                The essence of this question is really this:




                You call households that have exactly two children. You ask whether one child is a boy. What is the probability that the second child is a boy.




                Let A be the event that both children are girls, B the event that the first-born is a boy, the second-born a girl, C the event that the first-born is a girl the second-born a boy. and D the event that both children are boys. Then Events A,B,C,D are mutually disjoint and each occur with probability $frac{1}{4}$.



                Let us assume that, instead of asking if one child is a boy, you ask if the first-born is a boy. They will say yes if either Events B or D occured. Then the probability that the second-born is a boy, given that the first-born is a boy (i.e., it was Event D that occurred given that one of D or B occurred), is 1/2.



                But you are actually calling and asking if one child is a boy, and they will say yes if Events B,C, or D occurred. The only households that will say no are those for which event A occurred. So the probability that the other child is a girl, given
                that one child is a boy, is the probability of either Event B or Event C happening given that one of Events B,C,D happened. So the probability that the other child is a girl is 2/3.






                share|cite|improve this answer

























                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote









                  These questions are actually a lot of fun. Thank you for posting this!



                  The essence of this question is really this:




                  You call households that have exactly two children. You ask whether one child is a boy. What is the probability that the second child is a boy.




                  Let A be the event that both children are girls, B the event that the first-born is a boy, the second-born a girl, C the event that the first-born is a girl the second-born a boy. and D the event that both children are boys. Then Events A,B,C,D are mutually disjoint and each occur with probability $frac{1}{4}$.



                  Let us assume that, instead of asking if one child is a boy, you ask if the first-born is a boy. They will say yes if either Events B or D occured. Then the probability that the second-born is a boy, given that the first-born is a boy (i.e., it was Event D that occurred given that one of D or B occurred), is 1/2.



                  But you are actually calling and asking if one child is a boy, and they will say yes if Events B,C, or D occurred. The only households that will say no are those for which event A occurred. So the probability that the other child is a girl, given
                  that one child is a boy, is the probability of either Event B or Event C happening given that one of Events B,C,D happened. So the probability that the other child is a girl is 2/3.






                  share|cite|improve this answer














                  These questions are actually a lot of fun. Thank you for posting this!



                  The essence of this question is really this:




                  You call households that have exactly two children. You ask whether one child is a boy. What is the probability that the second child is a boy.




                  Let A be the event that both children are girls, B the event that the first-born is a boy, the second-born a girl, C the event that the first-born is a girl the second-born a boy. and D the event that both children are boys. Then Events A,B,C,D are mutually disjoint and each occur with probability $frac{1}{4}$.



                  Let us assume that, instead of asking if one child is a boy, you ask if the first-born is a boy. They will say yes if either Events B or D occured. Then the probability that the second-born is a boy, given that the first-born is a boy (i.e., it was Event D that occurred given that one of D or B occurred), is 1/2.



                  But you are actually calling and asking if one child is a boy, and they will say yes if Events B,C, or D occurred. The only households that will say no are those for which event A occurred. So the probability that the other child is a girl, given
                  that one child is a boy, is the probability of either Event B or Event C happening given that one of Events B,C,D happened. So the probability that the other child is a girl is 2/3.







                  share|cite|improve this answer














                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer








                  edited 1 hour ago

























                  answered 2 hours ago









                  Mike

                  2,694211




                  2,694211






















                      up vote
                      0
                      down vote













                      The crux of this problem is that the probability changes whether we find out that one of the children is William before or after we draw the family. See this paper for details. Assume that both sexes are equiprobable and that the probability of a child being a William is $p$. Denote Williams by $BW$ and male non-Williams by $B'$.



                      $$begin{array}{|c|c|c|}
                      hline
                      text{Child 1} & text{Child 2}&text{Prob.}\
                      hline
                      BW&BW &p^2\
                      hline
                      BW&B'&pleft(frac12-pright)\
                      hline
                      BW&G&frac12p\
                      hline
                      B'&BW&pleft(frac12-pright)\
                      hline
                      B'&B'&left(frac12-pright)^2\
                      hline
                      B'&G&frac12left(frac12-pright)\
                      hline
                      G&BW&frac12p\
                      hline
                      G&B'&frac12left(frac12-pright)\
                      hline
                      G&G&frac14\
                      hline
                      end{array}\
                      $$



                      In this space, the probability of child $2$ being a boy after we've found out that child $1$ is a William is $P(B|W)=frac{P(Bland W)}{P(W)}=frac1pfrac{p^2+pleft(frac12-pright)}{p^2+2p(1/2-p)+p+(1/2-p)^2+(1/2-p)+(1/2)^2}=frac12$.



                      However, if we knew that the family had a William (not that child $1$ was a William), we would have the following space.



                      begin{array}{|c|c|}
                      hline
                      text{Child 1} & text{Child 2} &text{Prob.}\
                      hline
                      BW&BW&p^2\
                      hline
                      BW&B'&left(frac12-pright)p\
                      hline
                      BW&G&frac12p\
                      hline
                      B'&BW&left(frac12-pright)p\
                      hline
                      G&BW&frac12p\
                      hline
                      end{array}



                      So then the probability of the other child being a boy becomes $frac{p^2+left(frac12-pright)p+left(frac12-pright)p}{p^2+left(frac12-pright)p+frac12p+left(frac12-pright)p+frac12p}=frac{1-p}{2-p}$, which agrees with @Steve_Kass's answer. This is a variant of the well known paradox whose solution depends on the exact phrasing of the problem. In essence, the prior knowledge of changes the system.






                      share|cite|improve this answer























                      • But you are only taking cases of families with two children with one named william. Families with a boy named william and a sister are twice as common as families with a boy names william and a brother. (think about it). So the probability is 1/3.
                        – fleablood
                        3 hours ago










                      • Argh. I'm mistaken.
                        – fleablood
                        3 hours ago










                      • @fleablood So was I, to be fair.
                        – Jam
                        3 hours ago















                      up vote
                      0
                      down vote













                      The crux of this problem is that the probability changes whether we find out that one of the children is William before or after we draw the family. See this paper for details. Assume that both sexes are equiprobable and that the probability of a child being a William is $p$. Denote Williams by $BW$ and male non-Williams by $B'$.



                      $$begin{array}{|c|c|c|}
                      hline
                      text{Child 1} & text{Child 2}&text{Prob.}\
                      hline
                      BW&BW &p^2\
                      hline
                      BW&B'&pleft(frac12-pright)\
                      hline
                      BW&G&frac12p\
                      hline
                      B'&BW&pleft(frac12-pright)\
                      hline
                      B'&B'&left(frac12-pright)^2\
                      hline
                      B'&G&frac12left(frac12-pright)\
                      hline
                      G&BW&frac12p\
                      hline
                      G&B'&frac12left(frac12-pright)\
                      hline
                      G&G&frac14\
                      hline
                      end{array}\
                      $$



                      In this space, the probability of child $2$ being a boy after we've found out that child $1$ is a William is $P(B|W)=frac{P(Bland W)}{P(W)}=frac1pfrac{p^2+pleft(frac12-pright)}{p^2+2p(1/2-p)+p+(1/2-p)^2+(1/2-p)+(1/2)^2}=frac12$.



                      However, if we knew that the family had a William (not that child $1$ was a William), we would have the following space.



                      begin{array}{|c|c|}
                      hline
                      text{Child 1} & text{Child 2} &text{Prob.}\
                      hline
                      BW&BW&p^2\
                      hline
                      BW&B'&left(frac12-pright)p\
                      hline
                      BW&G&frac12p\
                      hline
                      B'&BW&left(frac12-pright)p\
                      hline
                      G&BW&frac12p\
                      hline
                      end{array}



                      So then the probability of the other child being a boy becomes $frac{p^2+left(frac12-pright)p+left(frac12-pright)p}{p^2+left(frac12-pright)p+frac12p+left(frac12-pright)p+frac12p}=frac{1-p}{2-p}$, which agrees with @Steve_Kass's answer. This is a variant of the well known paradox whose solution depends on the exact phrasing of the problem. In essence, the prior knowledge of changes the system.






                      share|cite|improve this answer























                      • But you are only taking cases of families with two children with one named william. Families with a boy named william and a sister are twice as common as families with a boy names william and a brother. (think about it). So the probability is 1/3.
                        – fleablood
                        3 hours ago










                      • Argh. I'm mistaken.
                        – fleablood
                        3 hours ago










                      • @fleablood So was I, to be fair.
                        – Jam
                        3 hours ago













                      up vote
                      0
                      down vote










                      up vote
                      0
                      down vote









                      The crux of this problem is that the probability changes whether we find out that one of the children is William before or after we draw the family. See this paper for details. Assume that both sexes are equiprobable and that the probability of a child being a William is $p$. Denote Williams by $BW$ and male non-Williams by $B'$.



                      $$begin{array}{|c|c|c|}
                      hline
                      text{Child 1} & text{Child 2}&text{Prob.}\
                      hline
                      BW&BW &p^2\
                      hline
                      BW&B'&pleft(frac12-pright)\
                      hline
                      BW&G&frac12p\
                      hline
                      B'&BW&pleft(frac12-pright)\
                      hline
                      B'&B'&left(frac12-pright)^2\
                      hline
                      B'&G&frac12left(frac12-pright)\
                      hline
                      G&BW&frac12p\
                      hline
                      G&B'&frac12left(frac12-pright)\
                      hline
                      G&G&frac14\
                      hline
                      end{array}\
                      $$



                      In this space, the probability of child $2$ being a boy after we've found out that child $1$ is a William is $P(B|W)=frac{P(Bland W)}{P(W)}=frac1pfrac{p^2+pleft(frac12-pright)}{p^2+2p(1/2-p)+p+(1/2-p)^2+(1/2-p)+(1/2)^2}=frac12$.



                      However, if we knew that the family had a William (not that child $1$ was a William), we would have the following space.



                      begin{array}{|c|c|}
                      hline
                      text{Child 1} & text{Child 2} &text{Prob.}\
                      hline
                      BW&BW&p^2\
                      hline
                      BW&B'&left(frac12-pright)p\
                      hline
                      BW&G&frac12p\
                      hline
                      B'&BW&left(frac12-pright)p\
                      hline
                      G&BW&frac12p\
                      hline
                      end{array}



                      So then the probability of the other child being a boy becomes $frac{p^2+left(frac12-pright)p+left(frac12-pright)p}{p^2+left(frac12-pright)p+frac12p+left(frac12-pright)p+frac12p}=frac{1-p}{2-p}$, which agrees with @Steve_Kass's answer. This is a variant of the well known paradox whose solution depends on the exact phrasing of the problem. In essence, the prior knowledge of changes the system.






                      share|cite|improve this answer














                      The crux of this problem is that the probability changes whether we find out that one of the children is William before or after we draw the family. See this paper for details. Assume that both sexes are equiprobable and that the probability of a child being a William is $p$. Denote Williams by $BW$ and male non-Williams by $B'$.



                      $$begin{array}{|c|c|c|}
                      hline
                      text{Child 1} & text{Child 2}&text{Prob.}\
                      hline
                      BW&BW &p^2\
                      hline
                      BW&B'&pleft(frac12-pright)\
                      hline
                      BW&G&frac12p\
                      hline
                      B'&BW&pleft(frac12-pright)\
                      hline
                      B'&B'&left(frac12-pright)^2\
                      hline
                      B'&G&frac12left(frac12-pright)\
                      hline
                      G&BW&frac12p\
                      hline
                      G&B'&frac12left(frac12-pright)\
                      hline
                      G&G&frac14\
                      hline
                      end{array}\
                      $$



                      In this space, the probability of child $2$ being a boy after we've found out that child $1$ is a William is $P(B|W)=frac{P(Bland W)}{P(W)}=frac1pfrac{p^2+pleft(frac12-pright)}{p^2+2p(1/2-p)+p+(1/2-p)^2+(1/2-p)+(1/2)^2}=frac12$.



                      However, if we knew that the family had a William (not that child $1$ was a William), we would have the following space.



                      begin{array}{|c|c|}
                      hline
                      text{Child 1} & text{Child 2} &text{Prob.}\
                      hline
                      BW&BW&p^2\
                      hline
                      BW&B'&left(frac12-pright)p\
                      hline
                      BW&G&frac12p\
                      hline
                      B'&BW&left(frac12-pright)p\
                      hline
                      G&BW&frac12p\
                      hline
                      end{array}



                      So then the probability of the other child being a boy becomes $frac{p^2+left(frac12-pright)p+left(frac12-pright)p}{p^2+left(frac12-pright)p+frac12p+left(frac12-pright)p+frac12p}=frac{1-p}{2-p}$, which agrees with @Steve_Kass's answer. This is a variant of the well known paradox whose solution depends on the exact phrasing of the problem. In essence, the prior knowledge of changes the system.







                      share|cite|improve this answer














                      share|cite|improve this answer



                      share|cite|improve this answer








                      edited 3 mins ago

























                      answered 3 hours ago









                      Jam

                      4,84611431




                      4,84611431












                      • But you are only taking cases of families with two children with one named william. Families with a boy named william and a sister are twice as common as families with a boy names william and a brother. (think about it). So the probability is 1/3.
                        – fleablood
                        3 hours ago










                      • Argh. I'm mistaken.
                        – fleablood
                        3 hours ago










                      • @fleablood So was I, to be fair.
                        – Jam
                        3 hours ago


















                      • But you are only taking cases of families with two children with one named william. Families with a boy named william and a sister are twice as common as families with a boy names william and a brother. (think about it). So the probability is 1/3.
                        – fleablood
                        3 hours ago










                      • Argh. I'm mistaken.
                        – fleablood
                        3 hours ago










                      • @fleablood So was I, to be fair.
                        – Jam
                        3 hours ago
















                      But you are only taking cases of families with two children with one named william. Families with a boy named william and a sister are twice as common as families with a boy names william and a brother. (think about it). So the probability is 1/3.
                      – fleablood
                      3 hours ago




                      But you are only taking cases of families with two children with one named william. Families with a boy named william and a sister are twice as common as families with a boy names william and a brother. (think about it). So the probability is 1/3.
                      – fleablood
                      3 hours ago












                      Argh. I'm mistaken.
                      – fleablood
                      3 hours ago




                      Argh. I'm mistaken.
                      – fleablood
                      3 hours ago












                      @fleablood So was I, to be fair.
                      – Jam
                      3 hours ago




                      @fleablood So was I, to be fair.
                      – Jam
                      3 hours ago










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