Table tennis win probability











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This problem is from my teacher and I think their answer is wrong.



The problem is in the context of table tennis.




The players in the tournament final are Ani and Bertha. The score in the game is drawn at 20-20. The final game will continue until one player has scored two more points than the other. It is known from previous games between Ani and Bertha that the probability of Ani winning each point is 0.6. Find the probability that Ani will win the game after exactly 8 more points.




I think that this means that, over the next 6 games on the 2nd, 4th and 6th game Ani and Bertha need to have a draw. For each draw there are two possible paths. Ani wins then Bertha or Bertha then Ani. After the 6th game Ani just needs to win twice to win after exactly 8 points.



However my teacher says that:




If Bertha wins the first game, it is not possible for Ani to win after exactly 8 points.




and also asserts that there is only one path to the desired outcome. Using this they find the probability of Ani winning after exactly 8 points to be 0.005. (



Here is the linked image: image



I found an alternate answer using multiple paths.



$P(text{Ani winning a game})=0.6$



$P(text{Bertha winning a game})=0.4$



$P(text{Ani win after 8 points})=2dot(0.4 cdot 0.6)cdot2dot(0.4 cdot 0.6)cdot2dot(0.4 cdot 0.6)cdot(0.6cdot0.6)=0.040 (2sf)$



After I found this answer I asked my teacher if the proposed answer was correct. My teacher replied saying that there was nothing wrong with it.



Am I missing something painfully obvious and if so what? or is the teacher's answer incorrect?










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  • When you contacted your teacher, did you present your argument as clearly as you did here?
    – Fabio Somenzi
    3 hours ago















up vote
3
down vote

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This problem is from my teacher and I think their answer is wrong.



The problem is in the context of table tennis.




The players in the tournament final are Ani and Bertha. The score in the game is drawn at 20-20. The final game will continue until one player has scored two more points than the other. It is known from previous games between Ani and Bertha that the probability of Ani winning each point is 0.6. Find the probability that Ani will win the game after exactly 8 more points.




I think that this means that, over the next 6 games on the 2nd, 4th and 6th game Ani and Bertha need to have a draw. For each draw there are two possible paths. Ani wins then Bertha or Bertha then Ani. After the 6th game Ani just needs to win twice to win after exactly 8 points.



However my teacher says that:




If Bertha wins the first game, it is not possible for Ani to win after exactly 8 points.




and also asserts that there is only one path to the desired outcome. Using this they find the probability of Ani winning after exactly 8 points to be 0.005. (



Here is the linked image: image



I found an alternate answer using multiple paths.



$P(text{Ani winning a game})=0.6$



$P(text{Bertha winning a game})=0.4$



$P(text{Ani win after 8 points})=2dot(0.4 cdot 0.6)cdot2dot(0.4 cdot 0.6)cdot2dot(0.4 cdot 0.6)cdot(0.6cdot0.6)=0.040 (2sf)$



After I found this answer I asked my teacher if the proposed answer was correct. My teacher replied saying that there was nothing wrong with it.



Am I missing something painfully obvious and if so what? or is the teacher's answer incorrect?










share|cite|improve this question









New contributor




Zavier is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




















  • When you contacted your teacher, did you present your argument as clearly as you did here?
    – Fabio Somenzi
    3 hours ago













up vote
3
down vote

favorite









up vote
3
down vote

favorite











This problem is from my teacher and I think their answer is wrong.



The problem is in the context of table tennis.




The players in the tournament final are Ani and Bertha. The score in the game is drawn at 20-20. The final game will continue until one player has scored two more points than the other. It is known from previous games between Ani and Bertha that the probability of Ani winning each point is 0.6. Find the probability that Ani will win the game after exactly 8 more points.




I think that this means that, over the next 6 games on the 2nd, 4th and 6th game Ani and Bertha need to have a draw. For each draw there are two possible paths. Ani wins then Bertha or Bertha then Ani. After the 6th game Ani just needs to win twice to win after exactly 8 points.



However my teacher says that:




If Bertha wins the first game, it is not possible for Ani to win after exactly 8 points.




and also asserts that there is only one path to the desired outcome. Using this they find the probability of Ani winning after exactly 8 points to be 0.005. (



Here is the linked image: image



I found an alternate answer using multiple paths.



$P(text{Ani winning a game})=0.6$



$P(text{Bertha winning a game})=0.4$



$P(text{Ani win after 8 points})=2dot(0.4 cdot 0.6)cdot2dot(0.4 cdot 0.6)cdot2dot(0.4 cdot 0.6)cdot(0.6cdot0.6)=0.040 (2sf)$



After I found this answer I asked my teacher if the proposed answer was correct. My teacher replied saying that there was nothing wrong with it.



Am I missing something painfully obvious and if so what? or is the teacher's answer incorrect?










share|cite|improve this question









New contributor




Zavier is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











This problem is from my teacher and I think their answer is wrong.



The problem is in the context of table tennis.




The players in the tournament final are Ani and Bertha. The score in the game is drawn at 20-20. The final game will continue until one player has scored two more points than the other. It is known from previous games between Ani and Bertha that the probability of Ani winning each point is 0.6. Find the probability that Ani will win the game after exactly 8 more points.




I think that this means that, over the next 6 games on the 2nd, 4th and 6th game Ani and Bertha need to have a draw. For each draw there are two possible paths. Ani wins then Bertha or Bertha then Ani. After the 6th game Ani just needs to win twice to win after exactly 8 points.



However my teacher says that:




If Bertha wins the first game, it is not possible for Ani to win after exactly 8 points.




and also asserts that there is only one path to the desired outcome. Using this they find the probability of Ani winning after exactly 8 points to be 0.005. (



Here is the linked image: image



I found an alternate answer using multiple paths.



$P(text{Ani winning a game})=0.6$



$P(text{Bertha winning a game})=0.4$



$P(text{Ani win after 8 points})=2dot(0.4 cdot 0.6)cdot2dot(0.4 cdot 0.6)cdot2dot(0.4 cdot 0.6)cdot(0.6cdot0.6)=0.040 (2sf)$



After I found this answer I asked my teacher if the proposed answer was correct. My teacher replied saying that there was nothing wrong with it.



Am I missing something painfully obvious and if so what? or is the teacher's answer incorrect?







probability decision-trees






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Zavier is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|cite|improve this question









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Zavier is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









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edited 5 hours ago









Graham Kemp

84.1k43378




84.1k43378






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asked 5 hours ago









Zavier

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162




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Zavier is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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New contributor





Zavier is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






Zavier is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












  • When you contacted your teacher, did you present your argument as clearly as you did here?
    – Fabio Somenzi
    3 hours ago


















  • When you contacted your teacher, did you present your argument as clearly as you did here?
    – Fabio Somenzi
    3 hours ago
















When you contacted your teacher, did you present your argument as clearly as you did here?
– Fabio Somenzi
3 hours ago




When you contacted your teacher, did you present your argument as clearly as you did here?
– Fabio Somenzi
3 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
3
down vote













I think your teacher is wrong. He shows BAA as a win for Annie, but it's not. He has confused "ahead by two" with "win two in a row".






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • A non-mathematical suggestion on your answer: Since the OP referred to their teacher with the pronoun “they,” consider doing the same in your answer, instead of referring to the teacher as “he.”
    – Steve Kass
    4 hours ago


















up vote
1
down vote













Ani needs to be have two more points than Bertha exactly on the eighth game (not earlier, and never two less). She does not just need to win two games in a row, but to be tied then win the last two games.



So since we are staring at a tie and need to avoid an being ahead or behind by two after the second game, the first two games may be a win followed by a loss, or a loss followed by a win.



Either way leaves Ani and Bertha tied again at the end.   And so likewise for the next two games, and the next pair.   Then as stated, the final two games need both be wins.



There are eight ways to do this, each giving Ani three losses and five wins. (Also, four among these paths do have Bertha ahead on the first game, so your teacher supposed erraneously.)



$$mathsf P(text{W on 8th})= 2^3cdot0.4^3cdot0.6^5$$



As you found.






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    2 Answers
    2






    active

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    2 Answers
    2






    active

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    active

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    up vote
    3
    down vote













    I think your teacher is wrong. He shows BAA as a win for Annie, but it's not. He has confused "ahead by two" with "win two in a row".






    share|cite|improve this answer





















    • A non-mathematical suggestion on your answer: Since the OP referred to their teacher with the pronoun “they,” consider doing the same in your answer, instead of referring to the teacher as “he.”
      – Steve Kass
      4 hours ago















    up vote
    3
    down vote













    I think your teacher is wrong. He shows BAA as a win for Annie, but it's not. He has confused "ahead by two" with "win two in a row".






    share|cite|improve this answer





















    • A non-mathematical suggestion on your answer: Since the OP referred to their teacher with the pronoun “they,” consider doing the same in your answer, instead of referring to the teacher as “he.”
      – Steve Kass
      4 hours ago













    up vote
    3
    down vote










    up vote
    3
    down vote









    I think your teacher is wrong. He shows BAA as a win for Annie, but it's not. He has confused "ahead by two" with "win two in a row".






    share|cite|improve this answer












    I think your teacher is wrong. He shows BAA as a win for Annie, but it's not. He has confused "ahead by two" with "win two in a row".







    share|cite|improve this answer












    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer










    answered 5 hours ago









    Ethan Bolker

    39k543102




    39k543102












    • A non-mathematical suggestion on your answer: Since the OP referred to their teacher with the pronoun “they,” consider doing the same in your answer, instead of referring to the teacher as “he.”
      – Steve Kass
      4 hours ago


















    • A non-mathematical suggestion on your answer: Since the OP referred to their teacher with the pronoun “they,” consider doing the same in your answer, instead of referring to the teacher as “he.”
      – Steve Kass
      4 hours ago
















    A non-mathematical suggestion on your answer: Since the OP referred to their teacher with the pronoun “they,” consider doing the same in your answer, instead of referring to the teacher as “he.”
    – Steve Kass
    4 hours ago




    A non-mathematical suggestion on your answer: Since the OP referred to their teacher with the pronoun “they,” consider doing the same in your answer, instead of referring to the teacher as “he.”
    – Steve Kass
    4 hours ago










    up vote
    1
    down vote













    Ani needs to be have two more points than Bertha exactly on the eighth game (not earlier, and never two less). She does not just need to win two games in a row, but to be tied then win the last two games.



    So since we are staring at a tie and need to avoid an being ahead or behind by two after the second game, the first two games may be a win followed by a loss, or a loss followed by a win.



    Either way leaves Ani and Bertha tied again at the end.   And so likewise for the next two games, and the next pair.   Then as stated, the final two games need both be wins.



    There are eight ways to do this, each giving Ani three losses and five wins. (Also, four among these paths do have Bertha ahead on the first game, so your teacher supposed erraneously.)



    $$mathsf P(text{W on 8th})= 2^3cdot0.4^3cdot0.6^5$$



    As you found.






    share|cite|improve this answer



























      up vote
      1
      down vote













      Ani needs to be have two more points than Bertha exactly on the eighth game (not earlier, and never two less). She does not just need to win two games in a row, but to be tied then win the last two games.



      So since we are staring at a tie and need to avoid an being ahead or behind by two after the second game, the first two games may be a win followed by a loss, or a loss followed by a win.



      Either way leaves Ani and Bertha tied again at the end.   And so likewise for the next two games, and the next pair.   Then as stated, the final two games need both be wins.



      There are eight ways to do this, each giving Ani three losses and five wins. (Also, four among these paths do have Bertha ahead on the first game, so your teacher supposed erraneously.)



      $$mathsf P(text{W on 8th})= 2^3cdot0.4^3cdot0.6^5$$



      As you found.






      share|cite|improve this answer

























        up vote
        1
        down vote










        up vote
        1
        down vote









        Ani needs to be have two more points than Bertha exactly on the eighth game (not earlier, and never two less). She does not just need to win two games in a row, but to be tied then win the last two games.



        So since we are staring at a tie and need to avoid an being ahead or behind by two after the second game, the first two games may be a win followed by a loss, or a loss followed by a win.



        Either way leaves Ani and Bertha tied again at the end.   And so likewise for the next two games, and the next pair.   Then as stated, the final two games need both be wins.



        There are eight ways to do this, each giving Ani three losses and five wins. (Also, four among these paths do have Bertha ahead on the first game, so your teacher supposed erraneously.)



        $$mathsf P(text{W on 8th})= 2^3cdot0.4^3cdot0.6^5$$



        As you found.






        share|cite|improve this answer














        Ani needs to be have two more points than Bertha exactly on the eighth game (not earlier, and never two less). She does not just need to win two games in a row, but to be tied then win the last two games.



        So since we are staring at a tie and need to avoid an being ahead or behind by two after the second game, the first two games may be a win followed by a loss, or a loss followed by a win.



        Either way leaves Ani and Bertha tied again at the end.   And so likewise for the next two games, and the next pair.   Then as stated, the final two games need both be wins.



        There are eight ways to do this, each giving Ani three losses and five wins. (Also, four among these paths do have Bertha ahead on the first game, so your teacher supposed erraneously.)



        $$mathsf P(text{W on 8th})= 2^3cdot0.4^3cdot0.6^5$$



        As you found.







        share|cite|improve this answer














        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer








        edited 3 hours ago

























        answered 3 hours ago









        Graham Kemp

        84.1k43378




        84.1k43378






















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