Why are “two instances of /r/ in one word” awkward?
Why Do Languages Change? (2010) by R. L. Trask. pp. 5-6
Our story moves now to Scotland, where the word grammar underwent a
small change of pronunciation to glamour, reflecting the awkwardness of
having two instances of /r/ in one word.
Can somebody please help me sympathize? grammar isn't awkward for me to pronounce.
phonology
add a comment |
Why Do Languages Change? (2010) by R. L. Trask. pp. 5-6
Our story moves now to Scotland, where the word grammar underwent a
small change of pronunciation to glamour, reflecting the awkwardness of
having two instances of /r/ in one word.
Can somebody please help me sympathize? grammar isn't awkward for me to pronounce.
phonology
1
Is there confirmation that this is true? I'm imagining a Scottish accent, and don't see it.
– Malandy
Nov 26 '18 at 1:57
grammar lacking two instances of /r/ in most pronunciation forms. /ˈɡramə/. I assume some local Englishes it would be /ˈɡramar/
– user2617804
Nov 26 '18 at 7:58
1
The claim seems simply wrong to me. What do those Scots do with dreamer, rumour, or harbour?
– reinierpost
Nov 26 '18 at 9:50
1
The central gag in the 30 Rock episode "The Rural Juror" hinges on the difficulty of pronouncing words with two /r/s, but "rural" and "juror" lack "grammar"'s intervening /m/.
– Russell Borogove
Nov 26 '18 at 16:58
add a comment |
Why Do Languages Change? (2010) by R. L. Trask. pp. 5-6
Our story moves now to Scotland, where the word grammar underwent a
small change of pronunciation to glamour, reflecting the awkwardness of
having two instances of /r/ in one word.
Can somebody please help me sympathize? grammar isn't awkward for me to pronounce.
phonology
Why Do Languages Change? (2010) by R. L. Trask. pp. 5-6
Our story moves now to Scotland, where the word grammar underwent a
small change of pronunciation to glamour, reflecting the awkwardness of
having two instances of /r/ in one word.
Can somebody please help me sympathize? grammar isn't awkward for me to pronounce.
phonology
phonology
asked Nov 25 '18 at 22:49
AntinatalistAntinatalist
6615
6615
1
Is there confirmation that this is true? I'm imagining a Scottish accent, and don't see it.
– Malandy
Nov 26 '18 at 1:57
grammar lacking two instances of /r/ in most pronunciation forms. /ˈɡramə/. I assume some local Englishes it would be /ˈɡramar/
– user2617804
Nov 26 '18 at 7:58
1
The claim seems simply wrong to me. What do those Scots do with dreamer, rumour, or harbour?
– reinierpost
Nov 26 '18 at 9:50
1
The central gag in the 30 Rock episode "The Rural Juror" hinges on the difficulty of pronouncing words with two /r/s, but "rural" and "juror" lack "grammar"'s intervening /m/.
– Russell Borogove
Nov 26 '18 at 16:58
add a comment |
1
Is there confirmation that this is true? I'm imagining a Scottish accent, and don't see it.
– Malandy
Nov 26 '18 at 1:57
grammar lacking two instances of /r/ in most pronunciation forms. /ˈɡramə/. I assume some local Englishes it would be /ˈɡramar/
– user2617804
Nov 26 '18 at 7:58
1
The claim seems simply wrong to me. What do those Scots do with dreamer, rumour, or harbour?
– reinierpost
Nov 26 '18 at 9:50
1
The central gag in the 30 Rock episode "The Rural Juror" hinges on the difficulty of pronouncing words with two /r/s, but "rural" and "juror" lack "grammar"'s intervening /m/.
– Russell Borogove
Nov 26 '18 at 16:58
1
1
Is there confirmation that this is true? I'm imagining a Scottish accent, and don't see it.
– Malandy
Nov 26 '18 at 1:57
Is there confirmation that this is true? I'm imagining a Scottish accent, and don't see it.
– Malandy
Nov 26 '18 at 1:57
grammar lacking two instances of /r/ in most pronunciation forms. /ˈɡramə/. I assume some local Englishes it would be /ˈɡramar/
– user2617804
Nov 26 '18 at 7:58
grammar lacking two instances of /r/ in most pronunciation forms. /ˈɡramə/. I assume some local Englishes it would be /ˈɡramar/
– user2617804
Nov 26 '18 at 7:58
1
1
The claim seems simply wrong to me. What do those Scots do with dreamer, rumour, or harbour?
– reinierpost
Nov 26 '18 at 9:50
The claim seems simply wrong to me. What do those Scots do with dreamer, rumour, or harbour?
– reinierpost
Nov 26 '18 at 9:50
1
1
The central gag in the 30 Rock episode "The Rural Juror" hinges on the difficulty of pronouncing words with two /r/s, but "rural" and "juror" lack "grammar"'s intervening /m/.
– Russell Borogove
Nov 26 '18 at 16:58
The central gag in the 30 Rock episode "The Rural Juror" hinges on the difficulty of pronouncing words with two /r/s, but "rural" and "juror" lack "grammar"'s intervening /m/.
– Russell Borogove
Nov 26 '18 at 16:58
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
The only sensible interpretation of that claim that I can see is that having two instances of r in a word poses a special articulatory challenge. However there is no evidence to support that claim. A more plausible explanation is that the cause is perceptual. First, we may assume (there is some evidence) that r has a subtle long-distance effect in words, lowering of F3. In a word with two rhotics, it may be difficult to tell what the source of the general rhotic flavor of the word is, so listeners filter out one of the rhotics as being a phonetic side-effect of the other. This occurs in other languages including Georgian, Yimas and Sundanese.
8
I don't think we can dismiss the articulatory challenge out of hand. There are corroborating facts, such as the relative typological rarity of English's /r/ and its prevalence as a target of speech therapy.
– Luke Sawczak
Nov 25 '18 at 23:32
2
Note also that the other languages with r-dissimilation do not have the odd r that English has, but they have the dissimilation.
– user6726
Nov 25 '18 at 23:48
1
That's true, though that doesn't mean their /r/ isn't also difficult to articulate. The alveolar tap and trill in Spanish, for example, are more or less the same as the Scottish English /r/, so it would be circular to use that example to rule out the articulatory explanation for the Scottish one. (And I acknowledge that this is a different /r/ than the one I mentioned above, but the source as quoted doesn't clarify which one is in questio in the Scottish example.)
– Luke Sawczak
Nov 25 '18 at 23:53
3
The alveolar trip in Italian is pretty much "the" speech impediment that most people are familiar with (lisp being second at some distance, I suspect).
– LjL
Nov 26 '18 at 0:13
add a comment |
Since there was a question in the comments about the existence of the phenomenon I have searched the Corpus of Late Modern English Texts for short words of the pattern C[rl]V+[rl]e? with the corpus query processor. The phenomenon clearly exists on a statistical level, with two l's close to each other being the most deprecated combo:
Combo tokens types sample words
Cr_r 1856 25 prayer, prior
Cl_l 16 1 flail
Cr_l 4561 20 cruel, trial
Cl_r 7931 35 clear, floor
The pattern for the search was [word="[b-dfgk-npqstvwxz]l[aeiouy]+re?"]
(for the last query).
add a comment |
I don’t know if that helps you because I am German, but I find two r awkward mainly because to me it doesn’t sound like a legit syllable. In the German language, there is no letter that sounds like the English r, so to me it doesn’t even sound as if I am speaking at all, but rather as if I was imitating a roaring lion or a large toad. I also struggle with words that, unlike rural, have a consonant between the two r (like grapefruit). Sadly, we also use the word Grapefruit in Germany as there is no real translation (some people call it a Pampelmuse, but that’s technically a different fruit).
Also, again that probably doesn’t contribute 100% to your question as it refers to another language, but there are examples of words or names with two r that are changed or pronounced differently when they find its way into our language (like the character roronoa Zorro from the manga/anime One Piece, whose name is the same in English, but in German he is called lorenor zorro which has only one spoken r.) it also apart from the th the most difficult to pronounce for most English language learners and I‘ve often heard people pronouncing words like „rapper“ more like wapper (whatever that is). For a native English speaker, this barrier obviously isn’t there because they are used to it, but probably the „this r sounds like a toad coughing something up and two r make it sound totally awkward“ stays the same?
add a comment |
When there is a homorganicity phenomenon, there is generally a tendency to distinguish the phoneme from its twin (dissimilation) or to fusion them in a same phoneme (assimilation). That can occur even though those phonemes are far away from each other (like in Latin, see aris/alis). So, phonetic is not at stake, it is a phonological phenomenon.
add a comment |
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4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
The only sensible interpretation of that claim that I can see is that having two instances of r in a word poses a special articulatory challenge. However there is no evidence to support that claim. A more plausible explanation is that the cause is perceptual. First, we may assume (there is some evidence) that r has a subtle long-distance effect in words, lowering of F3. In a word with two rhotics, it may be difficult to tell what the source of the general rhotic flavor of the word is, so listeners filter out one of the rhotics as being a phonetic side-effect of the other. This occurs in other languages including Georgian, Yimas and Sundanese.
8
I don't think we can dismiss the articulatory challenge out of hand. There are corroborating facts, such as the relative typological rarity of English's /r/ and its prevalence as a target of speech therapy.
– Luke Sawczak
Nov 25 '18 at 23:32
2
Note also that the other languages with r-dissimilation do not have the odd r that English has, but they have the dissimilation.
– user6726
Nov 25 '18 at 23:48
1
That's true, though that doesn't mean their /r/ isn't also difficult to articulate. The alveolar tap and trill in Spanish, for example, are more or less the same as the Scottish English /r/, so it would be circular to use that example to rule out the articulatory explanation for the Scottish one. (And I acknowledge that this is a different /r/ than the one I mentioned above, but the source as quoted doesn't clarify which one is in questio in the Scottish example.)
– Luke Sawczak
Nov 25 '18 at 23:53
3
The alveolar trip in Italian is pretty much "the" speech impediment that most people are familiar with (lisp being second at some distance, I suspect).
– LjL
Nov 26 '18 at 0:13
add a comment |
The only sensible interpretation of that claim that I can see is that having two instances of r in a word poses a special articulatory challenge. However there is no evidence to support that claim. A more plausible explanation is that the cause is perceptual. First, we may assume (there is some evidence) that r has a subtle long-distance effect in words, lowering of F3. In a word with two rhotics, it may be difficult to tell what the source of the general rhotic flavor of the word is, so listeners filter out one of the rhotics as being a phonetic side-effect of the other. This occurs in other languages including Georgian, Yimas and Sundanese.
8
I don't think we can dismiss the articulatory challenge out of hand. There are corroborating facts, such as the relative typological rarity of English's /r/ and its prevalence as a target of speech therapy.
– Luke Sawczak
Nov 25 '18 at 23:32
2
Note also that the other languages with r-dissimilation do not have the odd r that English has, but they have the dissimilation.
– user6726
Nov 25 '18 at 23:48
1
That's true, though that doesn't mean their /r/ isn't also difficult to articulate. The alveolar tap and trill in Spanish, for example, are more or less the same as the Scottish English /r/, so it would be circular to use that example to rule out the articulatory explanation for the Scottish one. (And I acknowledge that this is a different /r/ than the one I mentioned above, but the source as quoted doesn't clarify which one is in questio in the Scottish example.)
– Luke Sawczak
Nov 25 '18 at 23:53
3
The alveolar trip in Italian is pretty much "the" speech impediment that most people are familiar with (lisp being second at some distance, I suspect).
– LjL
Nov 26 '18 at 0:13
add a comment |
The only sensible interpretation of that claim that I can see is that having two instances of r in a word poses a special articulatory challenge. However there is no evidence to support that claim. A more plausible explanation is that the cause is perceptual. First, we may assume (there is some evidence) that r has a subtle long-distance effect in words, lowering of F3. In a word with two rhotics, it may be difficult to tell what the source of the general rhotic flavor of the word is, so listeners filter out one of the rhotics as being a phonetic side-effect of the other. This occurs in other languages including Georgian, Yimas and Sundanese.
The only sensible interpretation of that claim that I can see is that having two instances of r in a word poses a special articulatory challenge. However there is no evidence to support that claim. A more plausible explanation is that the cause is perceptual. First, we may assume (there is some evidence) that r has a subtle long-distance effect in words, lowering of F3. In a word with two rhotics, it may be difficult to tell what the source of the general rhotic flavor of the word is, so listeners filter out one of the rhotics as being a phonetic side-effect of the other. This occurs in other languages including Georgian, Yimas and Sundanese.
answered Nov 25 '18 at 23:23
user6726user6726
35.3k12471
35.3k12471
8
I don't think we can dismiss the articulatory challenge out of hand. There are corroborating facts, such as the relative typological rarity of English's /r/ and its prevalence as a target of speech therapy.
– Luke Sawczak
Nov 25 '18 at 23:32
2
Note also that the other languages with r-dissimilation do not have the odd r that English has, but they have the dissimilation.
– user6726
Nov 25 '18 at 23:48
1
That's true, though that doesn't mean their /r/ isn't also difficult to articulate. The alveolar tap and trill in Spanish, for example, are more or less the same as the Scottish English /r/, so it would be circular to use that example to rule out the articulatory explanation for the Scottish one. (And I acknowledge that this is a different /r/ than the one I mentioned above, but the source as quoted doesn't clarify which one is in questio in the Scottish example.)
– Luke Sawczak
Nov 25 '18 at 23:53
3
The alveolar trip in Italian is pretty much "the" speech impediment that most people are familiar with (lisp being second at some distance, I suspect).
– LjL
Nov 26 '18 at 0:13
add a comment |
8
I don't think we can dismiss the articulatory challenge out of hand. There are corroborating facts, such as the relative typological rarity of English's /r/ and its prevalence as a target of speech therapy.
– Luke Sawczak
Nov 25 '18 at 23:32
2
Note also that the other languages with r-dissimilation do not have the odd r that English has, but they have the dissimilation.
– user6726
Nov 25 '18 at 23:48
1
That's true, though that doesn't mean their /r/ isn't also difficult to articulate. The alveolar tap and trill in Spanish, for example, are more or less the same as the Scottish English /r/, so it would be circular to use that example to rule out the articulatory explanation for the Scottish one. (And I acknowledge that this is a different /r/ than the one I mentioned above, but the source as quoted doesn't clarify which one is in questio in the Scottish example.)
– Luke Sawczak
Nov 25 '18 at 23:53
3
The alveolar trip in Italian is pretty much "the" speech impediment that most people are familiar with (lisp being second at some distance, I suspect).
– LjL
Nov 26 '18 at 0:13
8
8
I don't think we can dismiss the articulatory challenge out of hand. There are corroborating facts, such as the relative typological rarity of English's /r/ and its prevalence as a target of speech therapy.
– Luke Sawczak
Nov 25 '18 at 23:32
I don't think we can dismiss the articulatory challenge out of hand. There are corroborating facts, such as the relative typological rarity of English's /r/ and its prevalence as a target of speech therapy.
– Luke Sawczak
Nov 25 '18 at 23:32
2
2
Note also that the other languages with r-dissimilation do not have the odd r that English has, but they have the dissimilation.
– user6726
Nov 25 '18 at 23:48
Note also that the other languages with r-dissimilation do not have the odd r that English has, but they have the dissimilation.
– user6726
Nov 25 '18 at 23:48
1
1
That's true, though that doesn't mean their /r/ isn't also difficult to articulate. The alveolar tap and trill in Spanish, for example, are more or less the same as the Scottish English /r/, so it would be circular to use that example to rule out the articulatory explanation for the Scottish one. (And I acknowledge that this is a different /r/ than the one I mentioned above, but the source as quoted doesn't clarify which one is in questio in the Scottish example.)
– Luke Sawczak
Nov 25 '18 at 23:53
That's true, though that doesn't mean their /r/ isn't also difficult to articulate. The alveolar tap and trill in Spanish, for example, are more or less the same as the Scottish English /r/, so it would be circular to use that example to rule out the articulatory explanation for the Scottish one. (And I acknowledge that this is a different /r/ than the one I mentioned above, but the source as quoted doesn't clarify which one is in questio in the Scottish example.)
– Luke Sawczak
Nov 25 '18 at 23:53
3
3
The alveolar trip in Italian is pretty much "the" speech impediment that most people are familiar with (lisp being second at some distance, I suspect).
– LjL
Nov 26 '18 at 0:13
The alveolar trip in Italian is pretty much "the" speech impediment that most people are familiar with (lisp being second at some distance, I suspect).
– LjL
Nov 26 '18 at 0:13
add a comment |
Since there was a question in the comments about the existence of the phenomenon I have searched the Corpus of Late Modern English Texts for short words of the pattern C[rl]V+[rl]e? with the corpus query processor. The phenomenon clearly exists on a statistical level, with two l's close to each other being the most deprecated combo:
Combo tokens types sample words
Cr_r 1856 25 prayer, prior
Cl_l 16 1 flail
Cr_l 4561 20 cruel, trial
Cl_r 7931 35 clear, floor
The pattern for the search was [word="[b-dfgk-npqstvwxz]l[aeiouy]+re?"]
(for the last query).
add a comment |
Since there was a question in the comments about the existence of the phenomenon I have searched the Corpus of Late Modern English Texts for short words of the pattern C[rl]V+[rl]e? with the corpus query processor. The phenomenon clearly exists on a statistical level, with two l's close to each other being the most deprecated combo:
Combo tokens types sample words
Cr_r 1856 25 prayer, prior
Cl_l 16 1 flail
Cr_l 4561 20 cruel, trial
Cl_r 7931 35 clear, floor
The pattern for the search was [word="[b-dfgk-npqstvwxz]l[aeiouy]+re?"]
(for the last query).
add a comment |
Since there was a question in the comments about the existence of the phenomenon I have searched the Corpus of Late Modern English Texts for short words of the pattern C[rl]V+[rl]e? with the corpus query processor. The phenomenon clearly exists on a statistical level, with two l's close to each other being the most deprecated combo:
Combo tokens types sample words
Cr_r 1856 25 prayer, prior
Cl_l 16 1 flail
Cr_l 4561 20 cruel, trial
Cl_r 7931 35 clear, floor
The pattern for the search was [word="[b-dfgk-npqstvwxz]l[aeiouy]+re?"]
(for the last query).
Since there was a question in the comments about the existence of the phenomenon I have searched the Corpus of Late Modern English Texts for short words of the pattern C[rl]V+[rl]e? with the corpus query processor. The phenomenon clearly exists on a statistical level, with two l's close to each other being the most deprecated combo:
Combo tokens types sample words
Cr_r 1856 25 prayer, prior
Cl_l 16 1 flail
Cr_l 4561 20 cruel, trial
Cl_r 7931 35 clear, floor
The pattern for the search was [word="[b-dfgk-npqstvwxz]l[aeiouy]+re?"]
(for the last query).
answered Nov 28 '18 at 16:34
jknappenjknappen
11.4k22853
11.4k22853
add a comment |
add a comment |
I don’t know if that helps you because I am German, but I find two r awkward mainly because to me it doesn’t sound like a legit syllable. In the German language, there is no letter that sounds like the English r, so to me it doesn’t even sound as if I am speaking at all, but rather as if I was imitating a roaring lion or a large toad. I also struggle with words that, unlike rural, have a consonant between the two r (like grapefruit). Sadly, we also use the word Grapefruit in Germany as there is no real translation (some people call it a Pampelmuse, but that’s technically a different fruit).
Also, again that probably doesn’t contribute 100% to your question as it refers to another language, but there are examples of words or names with two r that are changed or pronounced differently when they find its way into our language (like the character roronoa Zorro from the manga/anime One Piece, whose name is the same in English, but in German he is called lorenor zorro which has only one spoken r.) it also apart from the th the most difficult to pronounce for most English language learners and I‘ve often heard people pronouncing words like „rapper“ more like wapper (whatever that is). For a native English speaker, this barrier obviously isn’t there because they are used to it, but probably the „this r sounds like a toad coughing something up and two r make it sound totally awkward“ stays the same?
add a comment |
I don’t know if that helps you because I am German, but I find two r awkward mainly because to me it doesn’t sound like a legit syllable. In the German language, there is no letter that sounds like the English r, so to me it doesn’t even sound as if I am speaking at all, but rather as if I was imitating a roaring lion or a large toad. I also struggle with words that, unlike rural, have a consonant between the two r (like grapefruit). Sadly, we also use the word Grapefruit in Germany as there is no real translation (some people call it a Pampelmuse, but that’s technically a different fruit).
Also, again that probably doesn’t contribute 100% to your question as it refers to another language, but there are examples of words or names with two r that are changed or pronounced differently when they find its way into our language (like the character roronoa Zorro from the manga/anime One Piece, whose name is the same in English, but in German he is called lorenor zorro which has only one spoken r.) it also apart from the th the most difficult to pronounce for most English language learners and I‘ve often heard people pronouncing words like „rapper“ more like wapper (whatever that is). For a native English speaker, this barrier obviously isn’t there because they are used to it, but probably the „this r sounds like a toad coughing something up and two r make it sound totally awkward“ stays the same?
add a comment |
I don’t know if that helps you because I am German, but I find two r awkward mainly because to me it doesn’t sound like a legit syllable. In the German language, there is no letter that sounds like the English r, so to me it doesn’t even sound as if I am speaking at all, but rather as if I was imitating a roaring lion or a large toad. I also struggle with words that, unlike rural, have a consonant between the two r (like grapefruit). Sadly, we also use the word Grapefruit in Germany as there is no real translation (some people call it a Pampelmuse, but that’s technically a different fruit).
Also, again that probably doesn’t contribute 100% to your question as it refers to another language, but there are examples of words or names with two r that are changed or pronounced differently when they find its way into our language (like the character roronoa Zorro from the manga/anime One Piece, whose name is the same in English, but in German he is called lorenor zorro which has only one spoken r.) it also apart from the th the most difficult to pronounce for most English language learners and I‘ve often heard people pronouncing words like „rapper“ more like wapper (whatever that is). For a native English speaker, this barrier obviously isn’t there because they are used to it, but probably the „this r sounds like a toad coughing something up and two r make it sound totally awkward“ stays the same?
I don’t know if that helps you because I am German, but I find two r awkward mainly because to me it doesn’t sound like a legit syllable. In the German language, there is no letter that sounds like the English r, so to me it doesn’t even sound as if I am speaking at all, but rather as if I was imitating a roaring lion or a large toad. I also struggle with words that, unlike rural, have a consonant between the two r (like grapefruit). Sadly, we also use the word Grapefruit in Germany as there is no real translation (some people call it a Pampelmuse, but that’s technically a different fruit).
Also, again that probably doesn’t contribute 100% to your question as it refers to another language, but there are examples of words or names with two r that are changed or pronounced differently when they find its way into our language (like the character roronoa Zorro from the manga/anime One Piece, whose name is the same in English, but in German he is called lorenor zorro which has only one spoken r.) it also apart from the th the most difficult to pronounce for most English language learners and I‘ve often heard people pronouncing words like „rapper“ more like wapper (whatever that is). For a native English speaker, this barrier obviously isn’t there because they are used to it, but probably the „this r sounds like a toad coughing something up and two r make it sound totally awkward“ stays the same?
answered Nov 26 '18 at 11:45
SnailshellSnailshell
211
211
add a comment |
add a comment |
When there is a homorganicity phenomenon, there is generally a tendency to distinguish the phoneme from its twin (dissimilation) or to fusion them in a same phoneme (assimilation). That can occur even though those phonemes are far away from each other (like in Latin, see aris/alis). So, phonetic is not at stake, it is a phonological phenomenon.
add a comment |
When there is a homorganicity phenomenon, there is generally a tendency to distinguish the phoneme from its twin (dissimilation) or to fusion them in a same phoneme (assimilation). That can occur even though those phonemes are far away from each other (like in Latin, see aris/alis). So, phonetic is not at stake, it is a phonological phenomenon.
add a comment |
When there is a homorganicity phenomenon, there is generally a tendency to distinguish the phoneme from its twin (dissimilation) or to fusion them in a same phoneme (assimilation). That can occur even though those phonemes are far away from each other (like in Latin, see aris/alis). So, phonetic is not at stake, it is a phonological phenomenon.
When there is a homorganicity phenomenon, there is generally a tendency to distinguish the phoneme from its twin (dissimilation) or to fusion them in a same phoneme (assimilation). That can occur even though those phonemes are far away from each other (like in Latin, see aris/alis). So, phonetic is not at stake, it is a phonological phenomenon.
answered Nov 28 '18 at 18:25
amegnunsenamegnunsen
910128
910128
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1
Is there confirmation that this is true? I'm imagining a Scottish accent, and don't see it.
– Malandy
Nov 26 '18 at 1:57
grammar lacking two instances of /r/ in most pronunciation forms. /ˈɡramə/. I assume some local Englishes it would be /ˈɡramar/
– user2617804
Nov 26 '18 at 7:58
1
The claim seems simply wrong to me. What do those Scots do with dreamer, rumour, or harbour?
– reinierpost
Nov 26 '18 at 9:50
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The central gag in the 30 Rock episode "The Rural Juror" hinges on the difficulty of pronouncing words with two /r/s, but "rural" and "juror" lack "grammar"'s intervening /m/.
– Russell Borogove
Nov 26 '18 at 16:58