Who has more power? Air Force One PIC or ICAO or FAA?












1














So, ICAO(or FAA) Controls everything in the air, but is Air Force One on top of it or is Air Force One needs top follow the ICAO's (or FAA's) regulations?










share|improve this question







New contributor




Isaac Lao is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




















  • Do you suppose Air Force One would mind crashing into a B777 while over the Atlantic, outside of radar coverage? I suppose they would be on a preplanned flight and following all the rules everyone else followed, As far as over US territory is concerned, they file a flight plan like everyone else.
    – Mike Brass
    4 hours ago






  • 1




    I believe Air Force One would be considered a "state aircraft" under the Chicago Convention, which means it would not be subject to ordinary ICAO regulations for civil aviation, just the general undertaking that it operate with "due regard" for the safety of civil aircraft. Of course, not being subject to the regulations doesn't mean that they won't generally comply with them in the interest of safety or that military regulations don't apply.
    – Zach Lipton
    4 hours ago


















1














So, ICAO(or FAA) Controls everything in the air, but is Air Force One on top of it or is Air Force One needs top follow the ICAO's (or FAA's) regulations?










share|improve this question







New contributor




Isaac Lao is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




















  • Do you suppose Air Force One would mind crashing into a B777 while over the Atlantic, outside of radar coverage? I suppose they would be on a preplanned flight and following all the rules everyone else followed, As far as over US territory is concerned, they file a flight plan like everyone else.
    – Mike Brass
    4 hours ago






  • 1




    I believe Air Force One would be considered a "state aircraft" under the Chicago Convention, which means it would not be subject to ordinary ICAO regulations for civil aviation, just the general undertaking that it operate with "due regard" for the safety of civil aircraft. Of course, not being subject to the regulations doesn't mean that they won't generally comply with them in the interest of safety or that military regulations don't apply.
    – Zach Lipton
    4 hours ago
















1












1








1







So, ICAO(or FAA) Controls everything in the air, but is Air Force One on top of it or is Air Force One needs top follow the ICAO's (or FAA's) regulations?










share|improve this question







New contributor




Isaac Lao is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











So, ICAO(or FAA) Controls everything in the air, but is Air Force One on top of it or is Air Force One needs top follow the ICAO's (or FAA's) regulations?







faa-regulations






share|improve this question







New contributor




Isaac Lao is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question







New contributor




Isaac Lao is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question






New contributor




Isaac Lao is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









asked 4 hours ago









Isaac Lao

61




61




New contributor




Isaac Lao is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





Isaac Lao is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






Isaac Lao is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












  • Do you suppose Air Force One would mind crashing into a B777 while over the Atlantic, outside of radar coverage? I suppose they would be on a preplanned flight and following all the rules everyone else followed, As far as over US territory is concerned, they file a flight plan like everyone else.
    – Mike Brass
    4 hours ago






  • 1




    I believe Air Force One would be considered a "state aircraft" under the Chicago Convention, which means it would not be subject to ordinary ICAO regulations for civil aviation, just the general undertaking that it operate with "due regard" for the safety of civil aircraft. Of course, not being subject to the regulations doesn't mean that they won't generally comply with them in the interest of safety or that military regulations don't apply.
    – Zach Lipton
    4 hours ago




















  • Do you suppose Air Force One would mind crashing into a B777 while over the Atlantic, outside of radar coverage? I suppose they would be on a preplanned flight and following all the rules everyone else followed, As far as over US territory is concerned, they file a flight plan like everyone else.
    – Mike Brass
    4 hours ago






  • 1




    I believe Air Force One would be considered a "state aircraft" under the Chicago Convention, which means it would not be subject to ordinary ICAO regulations for civil aviation, just the general undertaking that it operate with "due regard" for the safety of civil aircraft. Of course, not being subject to the regulations doesn't mean that they won't generally comply with them in the interest of safety or that military regulations don't apply.
    – Zach Lipton
    4 hours ago


















Do you suppose Air Force One would mind crashing into a B777 while over the Atlantic, outside of radar coverage? I suppose they would be on a preplanned flight and following all the rules everyone else followed, As far as over US territory is concerned, they file a flight plan like everyone else.
– Mike Brass
4 hours ago




Do you suppose Air Force One would mind crashing into a B777 while over the Atlantic, outside of radar coverage? I suppose they would be on a preplanned flight and following all the rules everyone else followed, As far as over US territory is concerned, they file a flight plan like everyone else.
– Mike Brass
4 hours ago




1




1




I believe Air Force One would be considered a "state aircraft" under the Chicago Convention, which means it would not be subject to ordinary ICAO regulations for civil aviation, just the general undertaking that it operate with "due regard" for the safety of civil aircraft. Of course, not being subject to the regulations doesn't mean that they won't generally comply with them in the interest of safety or that military regulations don't apply.
– Zach Lipton
4 hours ago






I believe Air Force One would be considered a "state aircraft" under the Chicago Convention, which means it would not be subject to ordinary ICAO regulations for civil aviation, just the general undertaking that it operate with "due regard" for the safety of civil aircraft. Of course, not being subject to the regulations doesn't mean that they won't generally comply with them in the interest of safety or that military regulations don't apply.
– Zach Lipton
4 hours ago












2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















3














First, ICAO has no authority over aircraft movement in and of itself. It's a United Nations Nations agency that, as Wikipedia puts it "codifies the principles and techniques of international air navigation and fosters the planning and development of international air transport to ensure safe and orderly growth." Individual sovereign nations accept whatever they want of what ICAO codifies, and it is the governing aviation authority of the individual nation that has the power.



Now, in the U.S., military aviation is not governed by the FAA, the civilian agency that for the most part complies with ICAO recommendations as do most countries. However, the U.S, government has a common air traffic control system for both military and civilian aircraft. If, for no good reason, an aircraft violates the air traffic rules, the FAA will deal with that for civilian aircraft, the military for military aircraft.



Air Force One is a military aircraft. Further, as @Zach Lipton has pointed out, it is a "state aircraft." Further, whichever airplane is carrying the President of the United States is designated Air Force One (or Marine One or Navy One) only when carrying the President, and the President is the Commander-in Chief of the military. I don't know how all that sorts out, but practical considerations dictate a general adherence to the "rules of the road" so to speak.



And finally, it's accepted practice that the captain of an aircraft is the final authority aboard the aircraft for the operation of the aircraft, regardless of who is aboard.



Better to rule by consensus than by diktat if there's time for consensus.






share|improve this answer































    1














    The PIC is always the final authority for operating his aircraft. That said, pilots will follow ATC instructions when able and advise when unable. This includes miltitary aircraft in civil airspace. (The military have their own rules in their own airspace--and in combat, of course.)



    AF1 is not particularly special in terms of regulations; they just won't accept ATC clearances or instructions they don't like, whereas other aircraft are expected to take what they get unless they're legitimately unable to comply. In a sense, AF1 always gets the priority handling that others only get after declaring an emergency, but how that priority works isn't any different. I don't know whether there is an actual regulation documenting that or it's just tribal knowledge within ATC; the latter would be entirely reasonable given it's just one plane.






    share|improve this answer





















      Your Answer





      StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
      return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
      StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
      StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
      });
      });
      }, "mathjax-editing");

      StackExchange.ready(function() {
      var channelOptions = {
      tags: "".split(" "),
      id: "528"
      };
      initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

      StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
      // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
      if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
      StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
      createEditor();
      });
      }
      else {
      createEditor();
      }
      });

      function createEditor() {
      StackExchange.prepareEditor({
      heartbeatType: 'answer',
      autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
      convertImagesToLinks: false,
      noModals: true,
      showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
      reputationToPostImages: null,
      bindNavPrevention: true,
      postfix: "",
      imageUploader: {
      brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
      contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
      allowUrls: true
      },
      noCode: true, onDemand: true,
      discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
      ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
      });


      }
      });






      Isaac Lao is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










      draft saved

      draft discarded


















      StackExchange.ready(
      function () {
      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2faviation.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f58658%2fwho-has-more-power-air-force-one-pic-or-icao-or-faa%23new-answer', 'question_page');
      }
      );

      Post as a guest















      Required, but never shown

























      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

      votes








      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      3














      First, ICAO has no authority over aircraft movement in and of itself. It's a United Nations Nations agency that, as Wikipedia puts it "codifies the principles and techniques of international air navigation and fosters the planning and development of international air transport to ensure safe and orderly growth." Individual sovereign nations accept whatever they want of what ICAO codifies, and it is the governing aviation authority of the individual nation that has the power.



      Now, in the U.S., military aviation is not governed by the FAA, the civilian agency that for the most part complies with ICAO recommendations as do most countries. However, the U.S, government has a common air traffic control system for both military and civilian aircraft. If, for no good reason, an aircraft violates the air traffic rules, the FAA will deal with that for civilian aircraft, the military for military aircraft.



      Air Force One is a military aircraft. Further, as @Zach Lipton has pointed out, it is a "state aircraft." Further, whichever airplane is carrying the President of the United States is designated Air Force One (or Marine One or Navy One) only when carrying the President, and the President is the Commander-in Chief of the military. I don't know how all that sorts out, but practical considerations dictate a general adherence to the "rules of the road" so to speak.



      And finally, it's accepted practice that the captain of an aircraft is the final authority aboard the aircraft for the operation of the aircraft, regardless of who is aboard.



      Better to rule by consensus than by diktat if there's time for consensus.






      share|improve this answer




























        3














        First, ICAO has no authority over aircraft movement in and of itself. It's a United Nations Nations agency that, as Wikipedia puts it "codifies the principles and techniques of international air navigation and fosters the planning and development of international air transport to ensure safe and orderly growth." Individual sovereign nations accept whatever they want of what ICAO codifies, and it is the governing aviation authority of the individual nation that has the power.



        Now, in the U.S., military aviation is not governed by the FAA, the civilian agency that for the most part complies with ICAO recommendations as do most countries. However, the U.S, government has a common air traffic control system for both military and civilian aircraft. If, for no good reason, an aircraft violates the air traffic rules, the FAA will deal with that for civilian aircraft, the military for military aircraft.



        Air Force One is a military aircraft. Further, as @Zach Lipton has pointed out, it is a "state aircraft." Further, whichever airplane is carrying the President of the United States is designated Air Force One (or Marine One or Navy One) only when carrying the President, and the President is the Commander-in Chief of the military. I don't know how all that sorts out, but practical considerations dictate a general adherence to the "rules of the road" so to speak.



        And finally, it's accepted practice that the captain of an aircraft is the final authority aboard the aircraft for the operation of the aircraft, regardless of who is aboard.



        Better to rule by consensus than by diktat if there's time for consensus.






        share|improve this answer


























          3












          3








          3






          First, ICAO has no authority over aircraft movement in and of itself. It's a United Nations Nations agency that, as Wikipedia puts it "codifies the principles and techniques of international air navigation and fosters the planning and development of international air transport to ensure safe and orderly growth." Individual sovereign nations accept whatever they want of what ICAO codifies, and it is the governing aviation authority of the individual nation that has the power.



          Now, in the U.S., military aviation is not governed by the FAA, the civilian agency that for the most part complies with ICAO recommendations as do most countries. However, the U.S, government has a common air traffic control system for both military and civilian aircraft. If, for no good reason, an aircraft violates the air traffic rules, the FAA will deal with that for civilian aircraft, the military for military aircraft.



          Air Force One is a military aircraft. Further, as @Zach Lipton has pointed out, it is a "state aircraft." Further, whichever airplane is carrying the President of the United States is designated Air Force One (or Marine One or Navy One) only when carrying the President, and the President is the Commander-in Chief of the military. I don't know how all that sorts out, but practical considerations dictate a general adherence to the "rules of the road" so to speak.



          And finally, it's accepted practice that the captain of an aircraft is the final authority aboard the aircraft for the operation of the aircraft, regardless of who is aboard.



          Better to rule by consensus than by diktat if there's time for consensus.






          share|improve this answer














          First, ICAO has no authority over aircraft movement in and of itself. It's a United Nations Nations agency that, as Wikipedia puts it "codifies the principles and techniques of international air navigation and fosters the planning and development of international air transport to ensure safe and orderly growth." Individual sovereign nations accept whatever they want of what ICAO codifies, and it is the governing aviation authority of the individual nation that has the power.



          Now, in the U.S., military aviation is not governed by the FAA, the civilian agency that for the most part complies with ICAO recommendations as do most countries. However, the U.S, government has a common air traffic control system for both military and civilian aircraft. If, for no good reason, an aircraft violates the air traffic rules, the FAA will deal with that for civilian aircraft, the military for military aircraft.



          Air Force One is a military aircraft. Further, as @Zach Lipton has pointed out, it is a "state aircraft." Further, whichever airplane is carrying the President of the United States is designated Air Force One (or Marine One or Navy One) only when carrying the President, and the President is the Commander-in Chief of the military. I don't know how all that sorts out, but practical considerations dictate a general adherence to the "rules of the road" so to speak.



          And finally, it's accepted practice that the captain of an aircraft is the final authority aboard the aircraft for the operation of the aircraft, regardless of who is aboard.



          Better to rule by consensus than by diktat if there's time for consensus.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 3 hours ago

























          answered 3 hours ago









          Terry

          33.1k585162




          33.1k585162























              1














              The PIC is always the final authority for operating his aircraft. That said, pilots will follow ATC instructions when able and advise when unable. This includes miltitary aircraft in civil airspace. (The military have their own rules in their own airspace--and in combat, of course.)



              AF1 is not particularly special in terms of regulations; they just won't accept ATC clearances or instructions they don't like, whereas other aircraft are expected to take what they get unless they're legitimately unable to comply. In a sense, AF1 always gets the priority handling that others only get after declaring an emergency, but how that priority works isn't any different. I don't know whether there is an actual regulation documenting that or it's just tribal knowledge within ATC; the latter would be entirely reasonable given it's just one plane.






              share|improve this answer


























                1














                The PIC is always the final authority for operating his aircraft. That said, pilots will follow ATC instructions when able and advise when unable. This includes miltitary aircraft in civil airspace. (The military have their own rules in their own airspace--and in combat, of course.)



                AF1 is not particularly special in terms of regulations; they just won't accept ATC clearances or instructions they don't like, whereas other aircraft are expected to take what they get unless they're legitimately unable to comply. In a sense, AF1 always gets the priority handling that others only get after declaring an emergency, but how that priority works isn't any different. I don't know whether there is an actual regulation documenting that or it's just tribal knowledge within ATC; the latter would be entirely reasonable given it's just one plane.






                share|improve this answer
























                  1












                  1








                  1






                  The PIC is always the final authority for operating his aircraft. That said, pilots will follow ATC instructions when able and advise when unable. This includes miltitary aircraft in civil airspace. (The military have their own rules in their own airspace--and in combat, of course.)



                  AF1 is not particularly special in terms of regulations; they just won't accept ATC clearances or instructions they don't like, whereas other aircraft are expected to take what they get unless they're legitimately unable to comply. In a sense, AF1 always gets the priority handling that others only get after declaring an emergency, but how that priority works isn't any different. I don't know whether there is an actual regulation documenting that or it's just tribal knowledge within ATC; the latter would be entirely reasonable given it's just one plane.






                  share|improve this answer












                  The PIC is always the final authority for operating his aircraft. That said, pilots will follow ATC instructions when able and advise when unable. This includes miltitary aircraft in civil airspace. (The military have their own rules in their own airspace--and in combat, of course.)



                  AF1 is not particularly special in terms of regulations; they just won't accept ATC clearances or instructions they don't like, whereas other aircraft are expected to take what they get unless they're legitimately unable to comply. In a sense, AF1 always gets the priority handling that others only get after declaring an emergency, but how that priority works isn't any different. I don't know whether there is an actual regulation documenting that or it's just tribal knowledge within ATC; the latter would be entirely reasonable given it's just one plane.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 3 hours ago









                  StephenS

                  1,751113




                  1,751113






















                      Isaac Lao is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










                      draft saved

                      draft discarded


















                      Isaac Lao is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.













                      Isaac Lao is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












                      Isaac Lao is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
















                      Thanks for contributing an answer to Aviation Stack Exchange!


                      • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                      But avoid



                      • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                      • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                      Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                      To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.





                      Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.


                      Please pay close attention to the following guidance:


                      • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                      But avoid



                      • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                      • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                      To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                      draft saved


                      draft discarded














                      StackExchange.ready(
                      function () {
                      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2faviation.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f58658%2fwho-has-more-power-air-force-one-pic-or-icao-or-faa%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                      }
                      );

                      Post as a guest















                      Required, but never shown





















































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown

































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown







                      Popular posts from this blog

                      404 Error Contact Form 7 ajax form submitting

                      How to know if a Active Directory user can login interactively

                      TypeError: fit_transform() missing 1 required positional argument: 'X'