Hat Puzzle with 5 different colours and 3 people












4














A dad wants to play a game with his 3 children this Christmas. He has a bag with 5 hats; 1 white, 1 yellow, 1 red, 1 blue and 1 black in it. The hats are all equal except their colour. He will place one on each of their heads and if they can all guess correctly the colour on their head they all get presents this year, if they get a single one wrong they get nothing.



To make things harder the dad lines the children up so they all face the same direction. Child #1 can see #2 and #3. Child #2 can only see #3 and Child #3 cannot see anyone.



With total randomness and equal probability the dad places 1 hat on each of their heads. Child #1 has to guess first then #2 and finally #3.



Before playing the game the children come up with a strategy to optimise their chances of getting Christmas presents this year.



What is their strategy? What is the probability they get presents?










share|improve this question
























  • Do they only get presents if all of them get it right, or do the ones who get it right get a present?
    – S. M.
    3 hours ago
















4














A dad wants to play a game with his 3 children this Christmas. He has a bag with 5 hats; 1 white, 1 yellow, 1 red, 1 blue and 1 black in it. The hats are all equal except their colour. He will place one on each of their heads and if they can all guess correctly the colour on their head they all get presents this year, if they get a single one wrong they get nothing.



To make things harder the dad lines the children up so they all face the same direction. Child #1 can see #2 and #3. Child #2 can only see #3 and Child #3 cannot see anyone.



With total randomness and equal probability the dad places 1 hat on each of their heads. Child #1 has to guess first then #2 and finally #3.



Before playing the game the children come up with a strategy to optimise their chances of getting Christmas presents this year.



What is their strategy? What is the probability they get presents?










share|improve this question
























  • Do they only get presents if all of them get it right, or do the ones who get it right get a present?
    – S. M.
    3 hours ago














4












4








4







A dad wants to play a game with his 3 children this Christmas. He has a bag with 5 hats; 1 white, 1 yellow, 1 red, 1 blue and 1 black in it. The hats are all equal except their colour. He will place one on each of their heads and if they can all guess correctly the colour on their head they all get presents this year, if they get a single one wrong they get nothing.



To make things harder the dad lines the children up so they all face the same direction. Child #1 can see #2 and #3. Child #2 can only see #3 and Child #3 cannot see anyone.



With total randomness and equal probability the dad places 1 hat on each of their heads. Child #1 has to guess first then #2 and finally #3.



Before playing the game the children come up with a strategy to optimise their chances of getting Christmas presents this year.



What is their strategy? What is the probability they get presents?










share|improve this question















A dad wants to play a game with his 3 children this Christmas. He has a bag with 5 hats; 1 white, 1 yellow, 1 red, 1 blue and 1 black in it. The hats are all equal except their colour. He will place one on each of their heads and if they can all guess correctly the colour on their head they all get presents this year, if they get a single one wrong they get nothing.



To make things harder the dad lines the children up so they all face the same direction. Child #1 can see #2 and #3. Child #2 can only see #3 and Child #3 cannot see anyone.



With total randomness and equal probability the dad places 1 hat on each of their heads. Child #1 has to guess first then #2 and finally #3.



Before playing the game the children come up with a strategy to optimise their chances of getting Christmas presents this year.



What is their strategy? What is the probability they get presents?







logical-deduction hat-guessing






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 20 mins ago









Bass

26.9k465167




26.9k465167










asked 3 hours ago









Ben Franks

48014




48014












  • Do they only get presents if all of them get it right, or do the ones who get it right get a present?
    – S. M.
    3 hours ago


















  • Do they only get presents if all of them get it right, or do the ones who get it right get a present?
    – S. M.
    3 hours ago
















Do they only get presents if all of them get it right, or do the ones who get it right get a present?
– S. M.
3 hours ago




Do they only get presents if all of them get it right, or do the ones who get it right get a present?
– S. M.
3 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















1














I'm pretty sure there's no way to get all 3 hats correct, but




I know a way to get 2 correct 100% of the time, and 3 correct exactly 20% of the time. (I don't know about you, but I wouldn't like this guy as my dad.)




Strategy:




The children assign a value from 0 to 4 to each hat color; say, white = 0, yellow = 1, red = 2, blue = 3, black = 4. Child #1's guess should be the sum of Child #2's hat and Child #3's hat mod 5, translated into a hat color. There is a 20% chance this will be correct, because there is a 9/25 chance that either child in front is wearing the 0 hat (which makes the guess 100% incorrect), and a 12/20 (4/5)(3/4) chance that neither is (which makes the guess 33% correct.) (12/20)(1/3) = 20%.




Now,




Child #2 knows the sum mod 5 of their hat and Child #3's hat, so they can subtract Child #3's color from the sum, and get their own color.




Then,




all Child #3 has to do is subtract Child #2's guess from Child #1's guess.




(This is assuming there isn't a lateral-thinking solution like the children being able to look at their own hats.)






share|improve this answer























  • Where does the 20% come from? It doesn't seem all that obvious.
    – Bass
    2 hours ago












  • @Bass i think your comment is incomplete, but I see what I did wrong lol
    – Excited Raichu
    2 hours ago










  • (sorry, on the phone, much misclicky, thanks for being clairvoyant :-)
    – Bass
    2 hours ago






  • 1




    @benj2240 if you use any different method that doesn't include some signal that you are using a different system (which I'm assuming isn't allowed by the problem, and a guess carries no information because you're already using that for information), it starts to impede the effectiveness of the first system.
    – Excited Raichu
    2 hours ago






  • 1




    @S.M. rot13(gur frpbaq xvq pnag gryy gur guveq uvf ung vs ur unf gb thrff uvf bja.)
    – Excited Raichu
    1 hour ago



















1














I think they can get all the way to




one in three




probability.



There's probably a possible explanation that utilises Galois fields, modular exponents and discrete logarithms, (well, more likely just modular subtraction and averages are enough) but let's instead give each kid one of these:




enter image description here.




Kid 1 then observes the other hat colours, and guesses a colour




that is as far (in the same direction) from kid 2's colour as kid 2's is from kid 3's.




For example, if kid 3 has black and kid 2 has yellow, then kid 1 guesses blue.



Then, kid 2 guesses the only colour that is




exactly halfway between 1's guess and 3's colour that can be seen.




In this example, kid 2 sees black, and hears the guess "blue", so 2 (correctly) guesses "yellow".



Kid 3, having heard two guesses, performs exactly the same operation as Kid 1.



In this example, 1 guessed "blue", and 2 guessed "yellow", so kid 3 (correctly) picks black, which is




two colours anticlockwise from yellow, just like yellow is two spots anticlockwise from blue.




This approach must be optimal, because




1. The first kid's guess can never be better than one in three, no matter what

2. The guess kid 1 makes with this system is always "possible" and never a duplicate of one of the other two colours, so its probability is one in three

3. After the first guess, the other kids always exactly know their colours.




So, yeah, that should just about do it.






share|improve this answer























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    2 Answers
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    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

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    active

    oldest

    votes









    1














    I'm pretty sure there's no way to get all 3 hats correct, but




    I know a way to get 2 correct 100% of the time, and 3 correct exactly 20% of the time. (I don't know about you, but I wouldn't like this guy as my dad.)




    Strategy:




    The children assign a value from 0 to 4 to each hat color; say, white = 0, yellow = 1, red = 2, blue = 3, black = 4. Child #1's guess should be the sum of Child #2's hat and Child #3's hat mod 5, translated into a hat color. There is a 20% chance this will be correct, because there is a 9/25 chance that either child in front is wearing the 0 hat (which makes the guess 100% incorrect), and a 12/20 (4/5)(3/4) chance that neither is (which makes the guess 33% correct.) (12/20)(1/3) = 20%.




    Now,




    Child #2 knows the sum mod 5 of their hat and Child #3's hat, so they can subtract Child #3's color from the sum, and get their own color.




    Then,




    all Child #3 has to do is subtract Child #2's guess from Child #1's guess.




    (This is assuming there isn't a lateral-thinking solution like the children being able to look at their own hats.)






    share|improve this answer























    • Where does the 20% come from? It doesn't seem all that obvious.
      – Bass
      2 hours ago












    • @Bass i think your comment is incomplete, but I see what I did wrong lol
      – Excited Raichu
      2 hours ago










    • (sorry, on the phone, much misclicky, thanks for being clairvoyant :-)
      – Bass
      2 hours ago






    • 1




      @benj2240 if you use any different method that doesn't include some signal that you are using a different system (which I'm assuming isn't allowed by the problem, and a guess carries no information because you're already using that for information), it starts to impede the effectiveness of the first system.
      – Excited Raichu
      2 hours ago






    • 1




      @S.M. rot13(gur frpbaq xvq pnag gryy gur guveq uvf ung vs ur unf gb thrff uvf bja.)
      – Excited Raichu
      1 hour ago
















    1














    I'm pretty sure there's no way to get all 3 hats correct, but




    I know a way to get 2 correct 100% of the time, and 3 correct exactly 20% of the time. (I don't know about you, but I wouldn't like this guy as my dad.)




    Strategy:




    The children assign a value from 0 to 4 to each hat color; say, white = 0, yellow = 1, red = 2, blue = 3, black = 4. Child #1's guess should be the sum of Child #2's hat and Child #3's hat mod 5, translated into a hat color. There is a 20% chance this will be correct, because there is a 9/25 chance that either child in front is wearing the 0 hat (which makes the guess 100% incorrect), and a 12/20 (4/5)(3/4) chance that neither is (which makes the guess 33% correct.) (12/20)(1/3) = 20%.




    Now,




    Child #2 knows the sum mod 5 of their hat and Child #3's hat, so they can subtract Child #3's color from the sum, and get their own color.




    Then,




    all Child #3 has to do is subtract Child #2's guess from Child #1's guess.




    (This is assuming there isn't a lateral-thinking solution like the children being able to look at their own hats.)






    share|improve this answer























    • Where does the 20% come from? It doesn't seem all that obvious.
      – Bass
      2 hours ago












    • @Bass i think your comment is incomplete, but I see what I did wrong lol
      – Excited Raichu
      2 hours ago










    • (sorry, on the phone, much misclicky, thanks for being clairvoyant :-)
      – Bass
      2 hours ago






    • 1




      @benj2240 if you use any different method that doesn't include some signal that you are using a different system (which I'm assuming isn't allowed by the problem, and a guess carries no information because you're already using that for information), it starts to impede the effectiveness of the first system.
      – Excited Raichu
      2 hours ago






    • 1




      @S.M. rot13(gur frpbaq xvq pnag gryy gur guveq uvf ung vs ur unf gb thrff uvf bja.)
      – Excited Raichu
      1 hour ago














    1












    1








    1






    I'm pretty sure there's no way to get all 3 hats correct, but




    I know a way to get 2 correct 100% of the time, and 3 correct exactly 20% of the time. (I don't know about you, but I wouldn't like this guy as my dad.)




    Strategy:




    The children assign a value from 0 to 4 to each hat color; say, white = 0, yellow = 1, red = 2, blue = 3, black = 4. Child #1's guess should be the sum of Child #2's hat and Child #3's hat mod 5, translated into a hat color. There is a 20% chance this will be correct, because there is a 9/25 chance that either child in front is wearing the 0 hat (which makes the guess 100% incorrect), and a 12/20 (4/5)(3/4) chance that neither is (which makes the guess 33% correct.) (12/20)(1/3) = 20%.




    Now,




    Child #2 knows the sum mod 5 of their hat and Child #3's hat, so they can subtract Child #3's color from the sum, and get their own color.




    Then,




    all Child #3 has to do is subtract Child #2's guess from Child #1's guess.




    (This is assuming there isn't a lateral-thinking solution like the children being able to look at their own hats.)






    share|improve this answer














    I'm pretty sure there's no way to get all 3 hats correct, but




    I know a way to get 2 correct 100% of the time, and 3 correct exactly 20% of the time. (I don't know about you, but I wouldn't like this guy as my dad.)




    Strategy:




    The children assign a value from 0 to 4 to each hat color; say, white = 0, yellow = 1, red = 2, blue = 3, black = 4. Child #1's guess should be the sum of Child #2's hat and Child #3's hat mod 5, translated into a hat color. There is a 20% chance this will be correct, because there is a 9/25 chance that either child in front is wearing the 0 hat (which makes the guess 100% incorrect), and a 12/20 (4/5)(3/4) chance that neither is (which makes the guess 33% correct.) (12/20)(1/3) = 20%.




    Now,




    Child #2 knows the sum mod 5 of their hat and Child #3's hat, so they can subtract Child #3's color from the sum, and get their own color.




    Then,




    all Child #3 has to do is subtract Child #2's guess from Child #1's guess.




    (This is assuming there isn't a lateral-thinking solution like the children being able to look at their own hats.)







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited 2 hours ago

























    answered 2 hours ago









    Excited Raichu

    5,465760




    5,465760












    • Where does the 20% come from? It doesn't seem all that obvious.
      – Bass
      2 hours ago












    • @Bass i think your comment is incomplete, but I see what I did wrong lol
      – Excited Raichu
      2 hours ago










    • (sorry, on the phone, much misclicky, thanks for being clairvoyant :-)
      – Bass
      2 hours ago






    • 1




      @benj2240 if you use any different method that doesn't include some signal that you are using a different system (which I'm assuming isn't allowed by the problem, and a guess carries no information because you're already using that for information), it starts to impede the effectiveness of the first system.
      – Excited Raichu
      2 hours ago






    • 1




      @S.M. rot13(gur frpbaq xvq pnag gryy gur guveq uvf ung vs ur unf gb thrff uvf bja.)
      – Excited Raichu
      1 hour ago


















    • Where does the 20% come from? It doesn't seem all that obvious.
      – Bass
      2 hours ago












    • @Bass i think your comment is incomplete, but I see what I did wrong lol
      – Excited Raichu
      2 hours ago










    • (sorry, on the phone, much misclicky, thanks for being clairvoyant :-)
      – Bass
      2 hours ago






    • 1




      @benj2240 if you use any different method that doesn't include some signal that you are using a different system (which I'm assuming isn't allowed by the problem, and a guess carries no information because you're already using that for information), it starts to impede the effectiveness of the first system.
      – Excited Raichu
      2 hours ago






    • 1




      @S.M. rot13(gur frpbaq xvq pnag gryy gur guveq uvf ung vs ur unf gb thrff uvf bja.)
      – Excited Raichu
      1 hour ago
















    Where does the 20% come from? It doesn't seem all that obvious.
    – Bass
    2 hours ago






    Where does the 20% come from? It doesn't seem all that obvious.
    – Bass
    2 hours ago














    @Bass i think your comment is incomplete, but I see what I did wrong lol
    – Excited Raichu
    2 hours ago




    @Bass i think your comment is incomplete, but I see what I did wrong lol
    – Excited Raichu
    2 hours ago












    (sorry, on the phone, much misclicky, thanks for being clairvoyant :-)
    – Bass
    2 hours ago




    (sorry, on the phone, much misclicky, thanks for being clairvoyant :-)
    – Bass
    2 hours ago




    1




    1




    @benj2240 if you use any different method that doesn't include some signal that you are using a different system (which I'm assuming isn't allowed by the problem, and a guess carries no information because you're already using that for information), it starts to impede the effectiveness of the first system.
    – Excited Raichu
    2 hours ago




    @benj2240 if you use any different method that doesn't include some signal that you are using a different system (which I'm assuming isn't allowed by the problem, and a guess carries no information because you're already using that for information), it starts to impede the effectiveness of the first system.
    – Excited Raichu
    2 hours ago




    1




    1




    @S.M. rot13(gur frpbaq xvq pnag gryy gur guveq uvf ung vs ur unf gb thrff uvf bja.)
    – Excited Raichu
    1 hour ago




    @S.M. rot13(gur frpbaq xvq pnag gryy gur guveq uvf ung vs ur unf gb thrff uvf bja.)
    – Excited Raichu
    1 hour ago











    1














    I think they can get all the way to




    one in three




    probability.



    There's probably a possible explanation that utilises Galois fields, modular exponents and discrete logarithms, (well, more likely just modular subtraction and averages are enough) but let's instead give each kid one of these:




    enter image description here.




    Kid 1 then observes the other hat colours, and guesses a colour




    that is as far (in the same direction) from kid 2's colour as kid 2's is from kid 3's.




    For example, if kid 3 has black and kid 2 has yellow, then kid 1 guesses blue.



    Then, kid 2 guesses the only colour that is




    exactly halfway between 1's guess and 3's colour that can be seen.




    In this example, kid 2 sees black, and hears the guess "blue", so 2 (correctly) guesses "yellow".



    Kid 3, having heard two guesses, performs exactly the same operation as Kid 1.



    In this example, 1 guessed "blue", and 2 guessed "yellow", so kid 3 (correctly) picks black, which is




    two colours anticlockwise from yellow, just like yellow is two spots anticlockwise from blue.




    This approach must be optimal, because




    1. The first kid's guess can never be better than one in three, no matter what

    2. The guess kid 1 makes with this system is always "possible" and never a duplicate of one of the other two colours, so its probability is one in three

    3. After the first guess, the other kids always exactly know their colours.




    So, yeah, that should just about do it.






    share|improve this answer




























      1














      I think they can get all the way to




      one in three




      probability.



      There's probably a possible explanation that utilises Galois fields, modular exponents and discrete logarithms, (well, more likely just modular subtraction and averages are enough) but let's instead give each kid one of these:




      enter image description here.




      Kid 1 then observes the other hat colours, and guesses a colour




      that is as far (in the same direction) from kid 2's colour as kid 2's is from kid 3's.




      For example, if kid 3 has black and kid 2 has yellow, then kid 1 guesses blue.



      Then, kid 2 guesses the only colour that is




      exactly halfway between 1's guess and 3's colour that can be seen.




      In this example, kid 2 sees black, and hears the guess "blue", so 2 (correctly) guesses "yellow".



      Kid 3, having heard two guesses, performs exactly the same operation as Kid 1.



      In this example, 1 guessed "blue", and 2 guessed "yellow", so kid 3 (correctly) picks black, which is




      two colours anticlockwise from yellow, just like yellow is two spots anticlockwise from blue.




      This approach must be optimal, because




      1. The first kid's guess can never be better than one in three, no matter what

      2. The guess kid 1 makes with this system is always "possible" and never a duplicate of one of the other two colours, so its probability is one in three

      3. After the first guess, the other kids always exactly know their colours.




      So, yeah, that should just about do it.






      share|improve this answer


























        1












        1








        1






        I think they can get all the way to




        one in three




        probability.



        There's probably a possible explanation that utilises Galois fields, modular exponents and discrete logarithms, (well, more likely just modular subtraction and averages are enough) but let's instead give each kid one of these:




        enter image description here.




        Kid 1 then observes the other hat colours, and guesses a colour




        that is as far (in the same direction) from kid 2's colour as kid 2's is from kid 3's.




        For example, if kid 3 has black and kid 2 has yellow, then kid 1 guesses blue.



        Then, kid 2 guesses the only colour that is




        exactly halfway between 1's guess and 3's colour that can be seen.




        In this example, kid 2 sees black, and hears the guess "blue", so 2 (correctly) guesses "yellow".



        Kid 3, having heard two guesses, performs exactly the same operation as Kid 1.



        In this example, 1 guessed "blue", and 2 guessed "yellow", so kid 3 (correctly) picks black, which is




        two colours anticlockwise from yellow, just like yellow is two spots anticlockwise from blue.




        This approach must be optimal, because




        1. The first kid's guess can never be better than one in three, no matter what

        2. The guess kid 1 makes with this system is always "possible" and never a duplicate of one of the other two colours, so its probability is one in three

        3. After the first guess, the other kids always exactly know their colours.




        So, yeah, that should just about do it.






        share|improve this answer














        I think they can get all the way to




        one in three




        probability.



        There's probably a possible explanation that utilises Galois fields, modular exponents and discrete logarithms, (well, more likely just modular subtraction and averages are enough) but let's instead give each kid one of these:




        enter image description here.




        Kid 1 then observes the other hat colours, and guesses a colour




        that is as far (in the same direction) from kid 2's colour as kid 2's is from kid 3's.




        For example, if kid 3 has black and kid 2 has yellow, then kid 1 guesses blue.



        Then, kid 2 guesses the only colour that is




        exactly halfway between 1's guess and 3's colour that can be seen.




        In this example, kid 2 sees black, and hears the guess "blue", so 2 (correctly) guesses "yellow".



        Kid 3, having heard two guesses, performs exactly the same operation as Kid 1.



        In this example, 1 guessed "blue", and 2 guessed "yellow", so kid 3 (correctly) picks black, which is




        two colours anticlockwise from yellow, just like yellow is two spots anticlockwise from blue.




        This approach must be optimal, because




        1. The first kid's guess can never be better than one in three, no matter what

        2. The guess kid 1 makes with this system is always "possible" and never a duplicate of one of the other two colours, so its probability is one in three

        3. After the first guess, the other kids always exactly know their colours.




        So, yeah, that should just about do it.







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited 27 mins ago

























        answered 1 hour ago









        Bass

        26.9k465167




        26.9k465167






























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