Unarmed Monk/Rogue Multi-Classing












2














I'm very new to D&D (5e) and my first character is a Monk w/ Hermit background, currently level 4 (Way of the Open Hand)



For RP reasons he's only going be unarmed, so obviously I want to wait a bit before multiclassing. I'm think either after level 5 or 8 depending how the campaign progresses.



My goal is to make a battlefield controller that zips around hamstringing casters and assisting our Rogue and Barbarian on the front lines. I already know my first error was taking 2+ Dex instead of the Mobility feat, I plan on taking it at Lvl 8 though.



Anyway, I realized I could save some Ki with free disengages, and add double dashing to my repertoire, by taking 2 lvls of Rogue. I was then looking at the archetypes at lvl 3, and most wouldn't help much since I don't use weapons, but Scout caught my eye with the Skirmish feature (If an enemy ends their turn within 5ft of you, you can use your reaction to move half your movement speed). Plus I think it would be cool for RP reasons for my Monk to be an expert at Nature and Survival.



Do you guys think its worth it? Should I just go straight Monk since I don't get Sneak Attack, and plan on getting Mobility anyway? Would it be better to just go with Swashbuckler and skip the Mobility feat?










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  • I think this question has too much leeway for opinion based answers. People could list the pros and cons of each, but that's not answering the question, that's listing the pros and cons.
    – L0neGamer
    1 hour ago






  • 3




    This question might be better asked with "what Rogue Archetype would best meet my goals" and then explicitly state those goals for your monk/rogue multiclass. That would entail a bit of liposuction on this question, and a little reorganization,, but you have a decent start. Also, please indicate how high in level you expect this campaign to go: build to 11, to 15, 20? I've seen guides all over the internet that take a build to 20, but not that many campaigns get that far.
    – KorvinStarmast
    1 hour ago








  • 1




    How do you "assist" the Rogue and the Barbarian?
    – András
    1 hour ago










  • @KorvinStarmast level doesn't really matter here, a Rogue without Sneak Attack is a subpar, regardless race, class or level
    – András
    13 mins ago
















2














I'm very new to D&D (5e) and my first character is a Monk w/ Hermit background, currently level 4 (Way of the Open Hand)



For RP reasons he's only going be unarmed, so obviously I want to wait a bit before multiclassing. I'm think either after level 5 or 8 depending how the campaign progresses.



My goal is to make a battlefield controller that zips around hamstringing casters and assisting our Rogue and Barbarian on the front lines. I already know my first error was taking 2+ Dex instead of the Mobility feat, I plan on taking it at Lvl 8 though.



Anyway, I realized I could save some Ki with free disengages, and add double dashing to my repertoire, by taking 2 lvls of Rogue. I was then looking at the archetypes at lvl 3, and most wouldn't help much since I don't use weapons, but Scout caught my eye with the Skirmish feature (If an enemy ends their turn within 5ft of you, you can use your reaction to move half your movement speed). Plus I think it would be cool for RP reasons for my Monk to be an expert at Nature and Survival.



Do you guys think its worth it? Should I just go straight Monk since I don't get Sneak Attack, and plan on getting Mobility anyway? Would it be better to just go with Swashbuckler and skip the Mobility feat?










share|improve this question







New contributor




Martez is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




















  • I think this question has too much leeway for opinion based answers. People could list the pros and cons of each, but that's not answering the question, that's listing the pros and cons.
    – L0neGamer
    1 hour ago






  • 3




    This question might be better asked with "what Rogue Archetype would best meet my goals" and then explicitly state those goals for your monk/rogue multiclass. That would entail a bit of liposuction on this question, and a little reorganization,, but you have a decent start. Also, please indicate how high in level you expect this campaign to go: build to 11, to 15, 20? I've seen guides all over the internet that take a build to 20, but not that many campaigns get that far.
    – KorvinStarmast
    1 hour ago








  • 1




    How do you "assist" the Rogue and the Barbarian?
    – András
    1 hour ago










  • @KorvinStarmast level doesn't really matter here, a Rogue without Sneak Attack is a subpar, regardless race, class or level
    – András
    13 mins ago














2












2








2







I'm very new to D&D (5e) and my first character is a Monk w/ Hermit background, currently level 4 (Way of the Open Hand)



For RP reasons he's only going be unarmed, so obviously I want to wait a bit before multiclassing. I'm think either after level 5 or 8 depending how the campaign progresses.



My goal is to make a battlefield controller that zips around hamstringing casters and assisting our Rogue and Barbarian on the front lines. I already know my first error was taking 2+ Dex instead of the Mobility feat, I plan on taking it at Lvl 8 though.



Anyway, I realized I could save some Ki with free disengages, and add double dashing to my repertoire, by taking 2 lvls of Rogue. I was then looking at the archetypes at lvl 3, and most wouldn't help much since I don't use weapons, but Scout caught my eye with the Skirmish feature (If an enemy ends their turn within 5ft of you, you can use your reaction to move half your movement speed). Plus I think it would be cool for RP reasons for my Monk to be an expert at Nature and Survival.



Do you guys think its worth it? Should I just go straight Monk since I don't get Sneak Attack, and plan on getting Mobility anyway? Would it be better to just go with Swashbuckler and skip the Mobility feat?










share|improve this question







New contributor




Martez is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











I'm very new to D&D (5e) and my first character is a Monk w/ Hermit background, currently level 4 (Way of the Open Hand)



For RP reasons he's only going be unarmed, so obviously I want to wait a bit before multiclassing. I'm think either after level 5 or 8 depending how the campaign progresses.



My goal is to make a battlefield controller that zips around hamstringing casters and assisting our Rogue and Barbarian on the front lines. I already know my first error was taking 2+ Dex instead of the Mobility feat, I plan on taking it at Lvl 8 though.



Anyway, I realized I could save some Ki with free disengages, and add double dashing to my repertoire, by taking 2 lvls of Rogue. I was then looking at the archetypes at lvl 3, and most wouldn't help much since I don't use weapons, but Scout caught my eye with the Skirmish feature (If an enemy ends their turn within 5ft of you, you can use your reaction to move half your movement speed). Plus I think it would be cool for RP reasons for my Monk to be an expert at Nature and Survival.



Do you guys think its worth it? Should I just go straight Monk since I don't get Sneak Attack, and plan on getting Mobility anyway? Would it be better to just go with Swashbuckler and skip the Mobility feat?







dnd-5e optimization






share|improve this question







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  • I think this question has too much leeway for opinion based answers. People could list the pros and cons of each, but that's not answering the question, that's listing the pros and cons.
    – L0neGamer
    1 hour ago






  • 3




    This question might be better asked with "what Rogue Archetype would best meet my goals" and then explicitly state those goals for your monk/rogue multiclass. That would entail a bit of liposuction on this question, and a little reorganization,, but you have a decent start. Also, please indicate how high in level you expect this campaign to go: build to 11, to 15, 20? I've seen guides all over the internet that take a build to 20, but not that many campaigns get that far.
    – KorvinStarmast
    1 hour ago








  • 1




    How do you "assist" the Rogue and the Barbarian?
    – András
    1 hour ago










  • @KorvinStarmast level doesn't really matter here, a Rogue without Sneak Attack is a subpar, regardless race, class or level
    – András
    13 mins ago


















  • I think this question has too much leeway for opinion based answers. People could list the pros and cons of each, but that's not answering the question, that's listing the pros and cons.
    – L0neGamer
    1 hour ago






  • 3




    This question might be better asked with "what Rogue Archetype would best meet my goals" and then explicitly state those goals for your monk/rogue multiclass. That would entail a bit of liposuction on this question, and a little reorganization,, but you have a decent start. Also, please indicate how high in level you expect this campaign to go: build to 11, to 15, 20? I've seen guides all over the internet that take a build to 20, but not that many campaigns get that far.
    – KorvinStarmast
    1 hour ago








  • 1




    How do you "assist" the Rogue and the Barbarian?
    – András
    1 hour ago










  • @KorvinStarmast level doesn't really matter here, a Rogue without Sneak Attack is a subpar, regardless race, class or level
    – András
    13 mins ago
















I think this question has too much leeway for opinion based answers. People could list the pros and cons of each, but that's not answering the question, that's listing the pros and cons.
– L0neGamer
1 hour ago




I think this question has too much leeway for opinion based answers. People could list the pros and cons of each, but that's not answering the question, that's listing the pros and cons.
– L0neGamer
1 hour ago




3




3




This question might be better asked with "what Rogue Archetype would best meet my goals" and then explicitly state those goals for your monk/rogue multiclass. That would entail a bit of liposuction on this question, and a little reorganization,, but you have a decent start. Also, please indicate how high in level you expect this campaign to go: build to 11, to 15, 20? I've seen guides all over the internet that take a build to 20, but not that many campaigns get that far.
– KorvinStarmast
1 hour ago






This question might be better asked with "what Rogue Archetype would best meet my goals" and then explicitly state those goals for your monk/rogue multiclass. That would entail a bit of liposuction on this question, and a little reorganization,, but you have a decent start. Also, please indicate how high in level you expect this campaign to go: build to 11, to 15, 20? I've seen guides all over the internet that take a build to 20, but not that many campaigns get that far.
– KorvinStarmast
1 hour ago






1




1




How do you "assist" the Rogue and the Barbarian?
– András
1 hour ago




How do you "assist" the Rogue and the Barbarian?
– András
1 hour ago












@KorvinStarmast level doesn't really matter here, a Rogue without Sneak Attack is a subpar, regardless race, class or level
– András
13 mins ago




@KorvinStarmast level doesn't really matter here, a Rogue without Sneak Attack is a subpar, regardless race, class or level
– András
13 mins ago










2 Answers
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1














The rogue multiclass is mostly redundant for an unarmed monk with the the Mobile feat



You seem to mainly be interested in the rogue multiclass for the class's abilities to dash and disengage. However, the Mobile feat already gives you most of what you want, without requiring a multiclass which would slow down your monk class progression. With the feat, you can "disengage" from a single enemy for the cost of one attack, which is cheap for a monk. The combination of the speed increase from the feat and the monk's Unarmored Movement ability means that by 10th level, your speed is increased by a total of 30 extra feet, which means you are effectively "dashing" every turn automatically, since you are now twice as fast as the average humanoid. And on the rare occasions that you need more than that, you can spend a ki point to dash and move another 60 feet as a bonus action.



Given all this, the rogue's Cunning Action ability and the Scout rogue's Skirmish feature are mostly redundant. Being able to dash or disengage as a bonus action at will would definitely make it easier to plan your turns, but as long as you don't mind thinking through all the mechanics, you can still accomplish most of the same things with only monk class features and the Mobile feat, and still have your bonus action available for an additional attack or flurry most of the time. And as you say, with unarmed strikes, you won't be able to take advantage of the rogue's sneak attack feature, which means that your 2 or 3 levels of rogue will do almost nothing to increase your damage output in combat. Hence, those 2 or 3 rogue levels would probably be much better spent getting you to a higher monk level instead.






share|improve this answer





























    1














    Don't go Rogue if you don't use Sneak Attack



    Most of the other features can be replicated with Ki points.



    Fights are usually not longer than 3 rounds, so it is 3 Ki points per fight for disengage. This is exactly as many as you lose by spending (wasting) 3 levels on Swashbuckler.

    This of course depends on the number of encounters your DM usually uses.



    The main reason for a Monk to multiclass to Rogue is Sneak Arrack.



    Don't take Mobility either



    You (and your party) should focus your fire, one dead and one alive Ogre deals half as much damage as two wounded ones.



    The only good reason to run around on the battlefield is to stun as many opponents as possible.

    If Stunning Fist works, Mobility is not needed to avoid opportunity attacks, if not, you should stay and keep trying. The best assistance you can provide to the Rogue (besides stunning) is staying next to his target to trigger his Sneak Attack.






    share|improve this answer























    • Mobile might still be useful for other things like darting up to an enemy, hitting them, and then darting back out of melee range before they can counterattack, but I agree that using it to distribute attacks across multiple enemies is not a good idea. (And for my suggested use case, using patient defense is probably a better choice.)
      – Ryan Thompson
      1 hour ago













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    2 Answers
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    2 Answers
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    The rogue multiclass is mostly redundant for an unarmed monk with the the Mobile feat



    You seem to mainly be interested in the rogue multiclass for the class's abilities to dash and disengage. However, the Mobile feat already gives you most of what you want, without requiring a multiclass which would slow down your monk class progression. With the feat, you can "disengage" from a single enemy for the cost of one attack, which is cheap for a monk. The combination of the speed increase from the feat and the monk's Unarmored Movement ability means that by 10th level, your speed is increased by a total of 30 extra feet, which means you are effectively "dashing" every turn automatically, since you are now twice as fast as the average humanoid. And on the rare occasions that you need more than that, you can spend a ki point to dash and move another 60 feet as a bonus action.



    Given all this, the rogue's Cunning Action ability and the Scout rogue's Skirmish feature are mostly redundant. Being able to dash or disengage as a bonus action at will would definitely make it easier to plan your turns, but as long as you don't mind thinking through all the mechanics, you can still accomplish most of the same things with only monk class features and the Mobile feat, and still have your bonus action available for an additional attack or flurry most of the time. And as you say, with unarmed strikes, you won't be able to take advantage of the rogue's sneak attack feature, which means that your 2 or 3 levels of rogue will do almost nothing to increase your damage output in combat. Hence, those 2 or 3 rogue levels would probably be much better spent getting you to a higher monk level instead.






    share|improve this answer


























      1














      The rogue multiclass is mostly redundant for an unarmed monk with the the Mobile feat



      You seem to mainly be interested in the rogue multiclass for the class's abilities to dash and disengage. However, the Mobile feat already gives you most of what you want, without requiring a multiclass which would slow down your monk class progression. With the feat, you can "disengage" from a single enemy for the cost of one attack, which is cheap for a monk. The combination of the speed increase from the feat and the monk's Unarmored Movement ability means that by 10th level, your speed is increased by a total of 30 extra feet, which means you are effectively "dashing" every turn automatically, since you are now twice as fast as the average humanoid. And on the rare occasions that you need more than that, you can spend a ki point to dash and move another 60 feet as a bonus action.



      Given all this, the rogue's Cunning Action ability and the Scout rogue's Skirmish feature are mostly redundant. Being able to dash or disengage as a bonus action at will would definitely make it easier to plan your turns, but as long as you don't mind thinking through all the mechanics, you can still accomplish most of the same things with only monk class features and the Mobile feat, and still have your bonus action available for an additional attack or flurry most of the time. And as you say, with unarmed strikes, you won't be able to take advantage of the rogue's sneak attack feature, which means that your 2 or 3 levels of rogue will do almost nothing to increase your damage output in combat. Hence, those 2 or 3 rogue levels would probably be much better spent getting you to a higher monk level instead.






      share|improve this answer
























        1












        1








        1






        The rogue multiclass is mostly redundant for an unarmed monk with the the Mobile feat



        You seem to mainly be interested in the rogue multiclass for the class's abilities to dash and disengage. However, the Mobile feat already gives you most of what you want, without requiring a multiclass which would slow down your monk class progression. With the feat, you can "disengage" from a single enemy for the cost of one attack, which is cheap for a monk. The combination of the speed increase from the feat and the monk's Unarmored Movement ability means that by 10th level, your speed is increased by a total of 30 extra feet, which means you are effectively "dashing" every turn automatically, since you are now twice as fast as the average humanoid. And on the rare occasions that you need more than that, you can spend a ki point to dash and move another 60 feet as a bonus action.



        Given all this, the rogue's Cunning Action ability and the Scout rogue's Skirmish feature are mostly redundant. Being able to dash or disengage as a bonus action at will would definitely make it easier to plan your turns, but as long as you don't mind thinking through all the mechanics, you can still accomplish most of the same things with only monk class features and the Mobile feat, and still have your bonus action available for an additional attack or flurry most of the time. And as you say, with unarmed strikes, you won't be able to take advantage of the rogue's sneak attack feature, which means that your 2 or 3 levels of rogue will do almost nothing to increase your damage output in combat. Hence, those 2 or 3 rogue levels would probably be much better spent getting you to a higher monk level instead.






        share|improve this answer












        The rogue multiclass is mostly redundant for an unarmed monk with the the Mobile feat



        You seem to mainly be interested in the rogue multiclass for the class's abilities to dash and disengage. However, the Mobile feat already gives you most of what you want, without requiring a multiclass which would slow down your monk class progression. With the feat, you can "disengage" from a single enemy for the cost of one attack, which is cheap for a monk. The combination of the speed increase from the feat and the monk's Unarmored Movement ability means that by 10th level, your speed is increased by a total of 30 extra feet, which means you are effectively "dashing" every turn automatically, since you are now twice as fast as the average humanoid. And on the rare occasions that you need more than that, you can spend a ki point to dash and move another 60 feet as a bonus action.



        Given all this, the rogue's Cunning Action ability and the Scout rogue's Skirmish feature are mostly redundant. Being able to dash or disengage as a bonus action at will would definitely make it easier to plan your turns, but as long as you don't mind thinking through all the mechanics, you can still accomplish most of the same things with only monk class features and the Mobile feat, and still have your bonus action available for an additional attack or flurry most of the time. And as you say, with unarmed strikes, you won't be able to take advantage of the rogue's sneak attack feature, which means that your 2 or 3 levels of rogue will do almost nothing to increase your damage output in combat. Hence, those 2 or 3 rogue levels would probably be much better spent getting you to a higher monk level instead.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 1 hour ago









        Ryan Thompson

        5,77612054




        5,77612054

























            1














            Don't go Rogue if you don't use Sneak Attack



            Most of the other features can be replicated with Ki points.



            Fights are usually not longer than 3 rounds, so it is 3 Ki points per fight for disengage. This is exactly as many as you lose by spending (wasting) 3 levels on Swashbuckler.

            This of course depends on the number of encounters your DM usually uses.



            The main reason for a Monk to multiclass to Rogue is Sneak Arrack.



            Don't take Mobility either



            You (and your party) should focus your fire, one dead and one alive Ogre deals half as much damage as two wounded ones.



            The only good reason to run around on the battlefield is to stun as many opponents as possible.

            If Stunning Fist works, Mobility is not needed to avoid opportunity attacks, if not, you should stay and keep trying. The best assistance you can provide to the Rogue (besides stunning) is staying next to his target to trigger his Sneak Attack.






            share|improve this answer























            • Mobile might still be useful for other things like darting up to an enemy, hitting them, and then darting back out of melee range before they can counterattack, but I agree that using it to distribute attacks across multiple enemies is not a good idea. (And for my suggested use case, using patient defense is probably a better choice.)
              – Ryan Thompson
              1 hour ago


















            1














            Don't go Rogue if you don't use Sneak Attack



            Most of the other features can be replicated with Ki points.



            Fights are usually not longer than 3 rounds, so it is 3 Ki points per fight for disengage. This is exactly as many as you lose by spending (wasting) 3 levels on Swashbuckler.

            This of course depends on the number of encounters your DM usually uses.



            The main reason for a Monk to multiclass to Rogue is Sneak Arrack.



            Don't take Mobility either



            You (and your party) should focus your fire, one dead and one alive Ogre deals half as much damage as two wounded ones.



            The only good reason to run around on the battlefield is to stun as many opponents as possible.

            If Stunning Fist works, Mobility is not needed to avoid opportunity attacks, if not, you should stay and keep trying. The best assistance you can provide to the Rogue (besides stunning) is staying next to his target to trigger his Sneak Attack.






            share|improve this answer























            • Mobile might still be useful for other things like darting up to an enemy, hitting them, and then darting back out of melee range before they can counterattack, but I agree that using it to distribute attacks across multiple enemies is not a good idea. (And for my suggested use case, using patient defense is probably a better choice.)
              – Ryan Thompson
              1 hour ago
















            1












            1








            1






            Don't go Rogue if you don't use Sneak Attack



            Most of the other features can be replicated with Ki points.



            Fights are usually not longer than 3 rounds, so it is 3 Ki points per fight for disengage. This is exactly as many as you lose by spending (wasting) 3 levels on Swashbuckler.

            This of course depends on the number of encounters your DM usually uses.



            The main reason for a Monk to multiclass to Rogue is Sneak Arrack.



            Don't take Mobility either



            You (and your party) should focus your fire, one dead and one alive Ogre deals half as much damage as two wounded ones.



            The only good reason to run around on the battlefield is to stun as many opponents as possible.

            If Stunning Fist works, Mobility is not needed to avoid opportunity attacks, if not, you should stay and keep trying. The best assistance you can provide to the Rogue (besides stunning) is staying next to his target to trigger his Sneak Attack.






            share|improve this answer














            Don't go Rogue if you don't use Sneak Attack



            Most of the other features can be replicated with Ki points.



            Fights are usually not longer than 3 rounds, so it is 3 Ki points per fight for disengage. This is exactly as many as you lose by spending (wasting) 3 levels on Swashbuckler.

            This of course depends on the number of encounters your DM usually uses.



            The main reason for a Monk to multiclass to Rogue is Sneak Arrack.



            Don't take Mobility either



            You (and your party) should focus your fire, one dead and one alive Ogre deals half as much damage as two wounded ones.



            The only good reason to run around on the battlefield is to stun as many opponents as possible.

            If Stunning Fist works, Mobility is not needed to avoid opportunity attacks, if not, you should stay and keep trying. The best assistance you can provide to the Rogue (besides stunning) is staying next to his target to trigger his Sneak Attack.







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited 1 hour ago

























            answered 1 hour ago









            András

            26.2k1092185




            26.2k1092185












            • Mobile might still be useful for other things like darting up to an enemy, hitting them, and then darting back out of melee range before they can counterattack, but I agree that using it to distribute attacks across multiple enemies is not a good idea. (And for my suggested use case, using patient defense is probably a better choice.)
              – Ryan Thompson
              1 hour ago




















            • Mobile might still be useful for other things like darting up to an enemy, hitting them, and then darting back out of melee range before they can counterattack, but I agree that using it to distribute attacks across multiple enemies is not a good idea. (And for my suggested use case, using patient defense is probably a better choice.)
              – Ryan Thompson
              1 hour ago


















            Mobile might still be useful for other things like darting up to an enemy, hitting them, and then darting back out of melee range before they can counterattack, but I agree that using it to distribute attacks across multiple enemies is not a good idea. (And for my suggested use case, using patient defense is probably a better choice.)
            – Ryan Thompson
            1 hour ago






            Mobile might still be useful for other things like darting up to an enemy, hitting them, and then darting back out of melee range before they can counterattack, but I agree that using it to distribute attacks across multiple enemies is not a good idea. (And for my suggested use case, using patient defense is probably a better choice.)
            – Ryan Thompson
            1 hour ago












            Martez is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










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