Why does the turn coordinator ball move to the right during a climb?












2














In a light aircraft like a C172 or PA-28, during a climb the ball in the turn coordinator moves to the right. Why?










share|improve this question









New contributor




PILOTSTUDENT1599 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




















  • What is a "stright" climb?
    – abelenky
    7 hours ago










  • Not accelerated climb
    – PILOTSTUDENT1599
    7 hours ago










  • Does it, though? In a straight and steady climb, the pilot will use rudder input to keep the ball centered. If the pilot does that during the climb, then the ball will only move as the pilot begins and ends the climb.
    – Tanner Swett
    7 hours ago










  • Well i know that it goes to right but i dont know why .
    – PILOTSTUDENT1599
    7 hours ago










  • Welcome to aviation.SE! Are you asking about a typical light, single-engine trainer like the C172? And if you're new to the site, the tour may be useful.
    – Pondlife
    7 hours ago


















2














In a light aircraft like a C172 or PA-28, during a climb the ball in the turn coordinator moves to the right. Why?










share|improve this question









New contributor




PILOTSTUDENT1599 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




















  • What is a "stright" climb?
    – abelenky
    7 hours ago










  • Not accelerated climb
    – PILOTSTUDENT1599
    7 hours ago










  • Does it, though? In a straight and steady climb, the pilot will use rudder input to keep the ball centered. If the pilot does that during the climb, then the ball will only move as the pilot begins and ends the climb.
    – Tanner Swett
    7 hours ago










  • Well i know that it goes to right but i dont know why .
    – PILOTSTUDENT1599
    7 hours ago










  • Welcome to aviation.SE! Are you asking about a typical light, single-engine trainer like the C172? And if you're new to the site, the tour may be useful.
    – Pondlife
    7 hours ago
















2












2








2


1





In a light aircraft like a C172 or PA-28, during a climb the ball in the turn coordinator moves to the right. Why?










share|improve this question









New contributor




PILOTSTUDENT1599 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











In a light aircraft like a C172 or PA-28, during a climb the ball in the turn coordinator moves to the right. Why?







flight-instruments climb gyroscopic-instruments






share|improve this question









New contributor




PILOTSTUDENT1599 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









New contributor




PILOTSTUDENT1599 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 7 hours ago









Pondlife

50.2k8135277




50.2k8135277






New contributor




PILOTSTUDENT1599 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









asked 7 hours ago









PILOTSTUDENT1599

112




112




New contributor




PILOTSTUDENT1599 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





PILOTSTUDENT1599 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






PILOTSTUDENT1599 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












  • What is a "stright" climb?
    – abelenky
    7 hours ago










  • Not accelerated climb
    – PILOTSTUDENT1599
    7 hours ago










  • Does it, though? In a straight and steady climb, the pilot will use rudder input to keep the ball centered. If the pilot does that during the climb, then the ball will only move as the pilot begins and ends the climb.
    – Tanner Swett
    7 hours ago










  • Well i know that it goes to right but i dont know why .
    – PILOTSTUDENT1599
    7 hours ago










  • Welcome to aviation.SE! Are you asking about a typical light, single-engine trainer like the C172? And if you're new to the site, the tour may be useful.
    – Pondlife
    7 hours ago




















  • What is a "stright" climb?
    – abelenky
    7 hours ago










  • Not accelerated climb
    – PILOTSTUDENT1599
    7 hours ago










  • Does it, though? In a straight and steady climb, the pilot will use rudder input to keep the ball centered. If the pilot does that during the climb, then the ball will only move as the pilot begins and ends the climb.
    – Tanner Swett
    7 hours ago










  • Well i know that it goes to right but i dont know why .
    – PILOTSTUDENT1599
    7 hours ago










  • Welcome to aviation.SE! Are you asking about a typical light, single-engine trainer like the C172? And if you're new to the site, the tour may be useful.
    – Pondlife
    7 hours ago


















What is a "stright" climb?
– abelenky
7 hours ago




What is a "stright" climb?
– abelenky
7 hours ago












Not accelerated climb
– PILOTSTUDENT1599
7 hours ago




Not accelerated climb
– PILOTSTUDENT1599
7 hours ago












Does it, though? In a straight and steady climb, the pilot will use rudder input to keep the ball centered. If the pilot does that during the climb, then the ball will only move as the pilot begins and ends the climb.
– Tanner Swett
7 hours ago




Does it, though? In a straight and steady climb, the pilot will use rudder input to keep the ball centered. If the pilot does that during the climb, then the ball will only move as the pilot begins and ends the climb.
– Tanner Swett
7 hours ago












Well i know that it goes to right but i dont know why .
– PILOTSTUDENT1599
7 hours ago




Well i know that it goes to right but i dont know why .
– PILOTSTUDENT1599
7 hours ago












Welcome to aviation.SE! Are you asking about a typical light, single-engine trainer like the C172? And if you're new to the site, the tour may be useful.
– Pondlife
7 hours ago






Welcome to aviation.SE! Are you asking about a typical light, single-engine trainer like the C172? And if you're new to the site, the tour may be useful.
– Pondlife
7 hours ago












2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















1














If the ball is offset it means the airplane is accelerating laterally, that is, it's slewing to the side as it flies. Torque from the engine, plus the spiral flow from the propeller wake and asymmetric thrust from the propeller disc, is doing it and the higher the power setting/the lower the speed, the worse it is.



Vertical fins typically have a bit of directional offset to correct for this in the cruise case without having to add rudder (look carefully at the dorsal fin on a 172, and you'll see it isn't aligned perfectly down the centerline but points to the left a couple degrees), but at high power settings and low speeds, like in a climb, the fin offset isn't enough and some right rudder input is also required to center the ball.



It's the same reason you need a lot of right rudder on takeoff. If the engine rotated the other way, everything would be opposite and you'd need left rudder. Engines themselves are also offset in the mount, canted to the right a little bit, for the same purpose.



If you are sufficiently sensitive to it you will feel the side slip in your body, which will want to slouch in the same direction as the skid ball (because that's where the apparent gravity is) and you can maintain reasonably coordinated flight without looking at the ball.






share|improve this answer





























    1














    There are 4 left turning tendencies in aircraft with "clockwise" (as seen from the pilots seat)
    turning propeller, 3 of which may apply during a full power climb out. The four are:




    1. Prop torque - prop turns right, plane rolls left - more noticeable at high power/slower
      speed


    2. Gyroscopic precession - nose goes down - plane yaws left - not a factor in a climb - some
      effect as plane levels out, also there on tail draggers as rear of plane rises during take off
      roll


    3. Asymmetric prop blade thrust at higher AOA (p factor). Differences in thrust of ascending
      and descending prop blades will cause yaw to the left.


    4. Spiral slipstream striking vertical stabilizer and side of fuselage, causing yaw to left.



    Number 1 has to be watched in higher performance engines during takeoff roll. Lifting off with insufficient airspeed will cause the plane to roll over and crash. Fortunately, in a Cessna 172, this tendency is much more modest but should not be ignored.



    3 and 4 are probably the main culprits of left yawing tendency in the climb. The answer: pitch to safe climbing airspeed (generally Vy) at full power and "step on that ball" with
    right rudder.



    Post script: the rolling tendency caused by high power lower speed torque may cause the pilot to feed in more right aileron when the better input is coordinated with rudder. As the plane accelerates from rotation and liftoff speed to Vy, it would be easy to miss you've rolled slightly to the right due to increased aerodynamic force. In straight line flight this would not be a major problem (unless you were dangerously near aileron reversal stall speed). I would work on glancing down at the ball as soon as safe climb is established, perhaps while checking airspeed. Stay coordinated.






    share|improve this answer























      Your Answer





      StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
      return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
      StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
      StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
      });
      });
      }, "mathjax-editing");

      StackExchange.ready(function() {
      var channelOptions = {
      tags: "".split(" "),
      id: "528"
      };
      initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

      StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
      // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
      if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
      StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
      createEditor();
      });
      }
      else {
      createEditor();
      }
      });

      function createEditor() {
      StackExchange.prepareEditor({
      heartbeatType: 'answer',
      autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
      convertImagesToLinks: false,
      noModals: true,
      showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
      reputationToPostImages: null,
      bindNavPrevention: true,
      postfix: "",
      imageUploader: {
      brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
      contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
      allowUrls: true
      },
      noCode: true, onDemand: true,
      discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
      ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
      });


      }
      });






      PILOTSTUDENT1599 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










      draft saved

      draft discarded


















      StackExchange.ready(
      function () {
      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2faviation.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f58605%2fwhy-does-the-turn-coordinator-ball-move-to-the-right-during-a-climb%23new-answer', 'question_page');
      }
      );

      Post as a guest















      Required, but never shown

























      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

      votes








      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      1














      If the ball is offset it means the airplane is accelerating laterally, that is, it's slewing to the side as it flies. Torque from the engine, plus the spiral flow from the propeller wake and asymmetric thrust from the propeller disc, is doing it and the higher the power setting/the lower the speed, the worse it is.



      Vertical fins typically have a bit of directional offset to correct for this in the cruise case without having to add rudder (look carefully at the dorsal fin on a 172, and you'll see it isn't aligned perfectly down the centerline but points to the left a couple degrees), but at high power settings and low speeds, like in a climb, the fin offset isn't enough and some right rudder input is also required to center the ball.



      It's the same reason you need a lot of right rudder on takeoff. If the engine rotated the other way, everything would be opposite and you'd need left rudder. Engines themselves are also offset in the mount, canted to the right a little bit, for the same purpose.



      If you are sufficiently sensitive to it you will feel the side slip in your body, which will want to slouch in the same direction as the skid ball (because that's where the apparent gravity is) and you can maintain reasonably coordinated flight without looking at the ball.






      share|improve this answer


























        1














        If the ball is offset it means the airplane is accelerating laterally, that is, it's slewing to the side as it flies. Torque from the engine, plus the spiral flow from the propeller wake and asymmetric thrust from the propeller disc, is doing it and the higher the power setting/the lower the speed, the worse it is.



        Vertical fins typically have a bit of directional offset to correct for this in the cruise case without having to add rudder (look carefully at the dorsal fin on a 172, and you'll see it isn't aligned perfectly down the centerline but points to the left a couple degrees), but at high power settings and low speeds, like in a climb, the fin offset isn't enough and some right rudder input is also required to center the ball.



        It's the same reason you need a lot of right rudder on takeoff. If the engine rotated the other way, everything would be opposite and you'd need left rudder. Engines themselves are also offset in the mount, canted to the right a little bit, for the same purpose.



        If you are sufficiently sensitive to it you will feel the side slip in your body, which will want to slouch in the same direction as the skid ball (because that's where the apparent gravity is) and you can maintain reasonably coordinated flight without looking at the ball.






        share|improve this answer
























          1












          1








          1






          If the ball is offset it means the airplane is accelerating laterally, that is, it's slewing to the side as it flies. Torque from the engine, plus the spiral flow from the propeller wake and asymmetric thrust from the propeller disc, is doing it and the higher the power setting/the lower the speed, the worse it is.



          Vertical fins typically have a bit of directional offset to correct for this in the cruise case without having to add rudder (look carefully at the dorsal fin on a 172, and you'll see it isn't aligned perfectly down the centerline but points to the left a couple degrees), but at high power settings and low speeds, like in a climb, the fin offset isn't enough and some right rudder input is also required to center the ball.



          It's the same reason you need a lot of right rudder on takeoff. If the engine rotated the other way, everything would be opposite and you'd need left rudder. Engines themselves are also offset in the mount, canted to the right a little bit, for the same purpose.



          If you are sufficiently sensitive to it you will feel the side slip in your body, which will want to slouch in the same direction as the skid ball (because that's where the apparent gravity is) and you can maintain reasonably coordinated flight without looking at the ball.






          share|improve this answer












          If the ball is offset it means the airplane is accelerating laterally, that is, it's slewing to the side as it flies. Torque from the engine, plus the spiral flow from the propeller wake and asymmetric thrust from the propeller disc, is doing it and the higher the power setting/the lower the speed, the worse it is.



          Vertical fins typically have a bit of directional offset to correct for this in the cruise case without having to add rudder (look carefully at the dorsal fin on a 172, and you'll see it isn't aligned perfectly down the centerline but points to the left a couple degrees), but at high power settings and low speeds, like in a climb, the fin offset isn't enough and some right rudder input is also required to center the ball.



          It's the same reason you need a lot of right rudder on takeoff. If the engine rotated the other way, everything would be opposite and you'd need left rudder. Engines themselves are also offset in the mount, canted to the right a little bit, for the same purpose.



          If you are sufficiently sensitive to it you will feel the side slip in your body, which will want to slouch in the same direction as the skid ball (because that's where the apparent gravity is) and you can maintain reasonably coordinated flight without looking at the ball.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 5 hours ago









          John K

          14.1k11543




          14.1k11543























              1














              There are 4 left turning tendencies in aircraft with "clockwise" (as seen from the pilots seat)
              turning propeller, 3 of which may apply during a full power climb out. The four are:




              1. Prop torque - prop turns right, plane rolls left - more noticeable at high power/slower
                speed


              2. Gyroscopic precession - nose goes down - plane yaws left - not a factor in a climb - some
                effect as plane levels out, also there on tail draggers as rear of plane rises during take off
                roll


              3. Asymmetric prop blade thrust at higher AOA (p factor). Differences in thrust of ascending
                and descending prop blades will cause yaw to the left.


              4. Spiral slipstream striking vertical stabilizer and side of fuselage, causing yaw to left.



              Number 1 has to be watched in higher performance engines during takeoff roll. Lifting off with insufficient airspeed will cause the plane to roll over and crash. Fortunately, in a Cessna 172, this tendency is much more modest but should not be ignored.



              3 and 4 are probably the main culprits of left yawing tendency in the climb. The answer: pitch to safe climbing airspeed (generally Vy) at full power and "step on that ball" with
              right rudder.



              Post script: the rolling tendency caused by high power lower speed torque may cause the pilot to feed in more right aileron when the better input is coordinated with rudder. As the plane accelerates from rotation and liftoff speed to Vy, it would be easy to miss you've rolled slightly to the right due to increased aerodynamic force. In straight line flight this would not be a major problem (unless you were dangerously near aileron reversal stall speed). I would work on glancing down at the ball as soon as safe climb is established, perhaps while checking airspeed. Stay coordinated.






              share|improve this answer




























                1














                There are 4 left turning tendencies in aircraft with "clockwise" (as seen from the pilots seat)
                turning propeller, 3 of which may apply during a full power climb out. The four are:




                1. Prop torque - prop turns right, plane rolls left - more noticeable at high power/slower
                  speed


                2. Gyroscopic precession - nose goes down - plane yaws left - not a factor in a climb - some
                  effect as plane levels out, also there on tail draggers as rear of plane rises during take off
                  roll


                3. Asymmetric prop blade thrust at higher AOA (p factor). Differences in thrust of ascending
                  and descending prop blades will cause yaw to the left.


                4. Spiral slipstream striking vertical stabilizer and side of fuselage, causing yaw to left.



                Number 1 has to be watched in higher performance engines during takeoff roll. Lifting off with insufficient airspeed will cause the plane to roll over and crash. Fortunately, in a Cessna 172, this tendency is much more modest but should not be ignored.



                3 and 4 are probably the main culprits of left yawing tendency in the climb. The answer: pitch to safe climbing airspeed (generally Vy) at full power and "step on that ball" with
                right rudder.



                Post script: the rolling tendency caused by high power lower speed torque may cause the pilot to feed in more right aileron when the better input is coordinated with rudder. As the plane accelerates from rotation and liftoff speed to Vy, it would be easy to miss you've rolled slightly to the right due to increased aerodynamic force. In straight line flight this would not be a major problem (unless you were dangerously near aileron reversal stall speed). I would work on glancing down at the ball as soon as safe climb is established, perhaps while checking airspeed. Stay coordinated.






                share|improve this answer


























                  1












                  1








                  1






                  There are 4 left turning tendencies in aircraft with "clockwise" (as seen from the pilots seat)
                  turning propeller, 3 of which may apply during a full power climb out. The four are:




                  1. Prop torque - prop turns right, plane rolls left - more noticeable at high power/slower
                    speed


                  2. Gyroscopic precession - nose goes down - plane yaws left - not a factor in a climb - some
                    effect as plane levels out, also there on tail draggers as rear of plane rises during take off
                    roll


                  3. Asymmetric prop blade thrust at higher AOA (p factor). Differences in thrust of ascending
                    and descending prop blades will cause yaw to the left.


                  4. Spiral slipstream striking vertical stabilizer and side of fuselage, causing yaw to left.



                  Number 1 has to be watched in higher performance engines during takeoff roll. Lifting off with insufficient airspeed will cause the plane to roll over and crash. Fortunately, in a Cessna 172, this tendency is much more modest but should not be ignored.



                  3 and 4 are probably the main culprits of left yawing tendency in the climb. The answer: pitch to safe climbing airspeed (generally Vy) at full power and "step on that ball" with
                  right rudder.



                  Post script: the rolling tendency caused by high power lower speed torque may cause the pilot to feed in more right aileron when the better input is coordinated with rudder. As the plane accelerates from rotation and liftoff speed to Vy, it would be easy to miss you've rolled slightly to the right due to increased aerodynamic force. In straight line flight this would not be a major problem (unless you were dangerously near aileron reversal stall speed). I would work on glancing down at the ball as soon as safe climb is established, perhaps while checking airspeed. Stay coordinated.






                  share|improve this answer














                  There are 4 left turning tendencies in aircraft with "clockwise" (as seen from the pilots seat)
                  turning propeller, 3 of which may apply during a full power climb out. The four are:




                  1. Prop torque - prop turns right, plane rolls left - more noticeable at high power/slower
                    speed


                  2. Gyroscopic precession - nose goes down - plane yaws left - not a factor in a climb - some
                    effect as plane levels out, also there on tail draggers as rear of plane rises during take off
                    roll


                  3. Asymmetric prop blade thrust at higher AOA (p factor). Differences in thrust of ascending
                    and descending prop blades will cause yaw to the left.


                  4. Spiral slipstream striking vertical stabilizer and side of fuselage, causing yaw to left.



                  Number 1 has to be watched in higher performance engines during takeoff roll. Lifting off with insufficient airspeed will cause the plane to roll over and crash. Fortunately, in a Cessna 172, this tendency is much more modest but should not be ignored.



                  3 and 4 are probably the main culprits of left yawing tendency in the climb. The answer: pitch to safe climbing airspeed (generally Vy) at full power and "step on that ball" with
                  right rudder.



                  Post script: the rolling tendency caused by high power lower speed torque may cause the pilot to feed in more right aileron when the better input is coordinated with rudder. As the plane accelerates from rotation and liftoff speed to Vy, it would be easy to miss you've rolled slightly to the right due to increased aerodynamic force. In straight line flight this would not be a major problem (unless you were dangerously near aileron reversal stall speed). I would work on glancing down at the ball as soon as safe climb is established, perhaps while checking airspeed. Stay coordinated.







                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited 1 hour ago

























                  answered 5 hours ago









                  Robert DiGiovanni

                  1,5081315




                  1,5081315






















                      PILOTSTUDENT1599 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










                      draft saved

                      draft discarded


















                      PILOTSTUDENT1599 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.













                      PILOTSTUDENT1599 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












                      PILOTSTUDENT1599 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
















                      Thanks for contributing an answer to Aviation Stack Exchange!


                      • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                      But avoid



                      • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                      • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                      Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                      To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.





                      Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.


                      Please pay close attention to the following guidance:


                      • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                      But avoid



                      • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                      • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                      To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                      draft saved


                      draft discarded














                      StackExchange.ready(
                      function () {
                      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2faviation.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f58605%2fwhy-does-the-turn-coordinator-ball-move-to-the-right-during-a-climb%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                      }
                      );

                      Post as a guest















                      Required, but never shown





















































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown

































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown







                      Popular posts from this blog

                      404 Error Contact Form 7 ajax form submitting

                      How to know if a Active Directory user can login interactively

                      TypeError: fit_transform() missing 1 required positional argument: 'X'